Guest Richard Posted October 24, 2013 at 02:08 AM Report Share Posted October 24, 2013 at 02:08 AM At an executive session a board member was asked to resign. All the board members were not present. We realize that we will need to have at least one more executive session on this matter . In this meeting can the members who were not present at the first executive session be told what happend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted October 24, 2013 at 02:24 AM Report Share Posted October 24, 2013 at 02:24 AM We realize that we will need to have at least one more executive session on this matter. Why? In this meeting can the members who were not present at the first executive session be told what happend? Sure, but you don't need to wait for another meeting for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steve Posted October 25, 2013 at 01:10 PM Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 at 01:10 PM Please, another Executive Session question: I understand Executive Session contect remains confidential. What MUST be made public following the Executive Session, ie decision(s) reached, etc? Thanks for the guidance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted October 25, 2013 at 01:12 PM Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 at 01:12 PM Please, another Executive Session question: I understand Executive Session contect remains confidential. What MUST be made public following the Executive Session, ie decision(s) reached, etc? Thanks for the guidance. Nothing as far as RONR is concerned. The assembly meeting in Executive Session determines what, if anything, will be revealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted October 25, 2013 at 01:26 PM Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 at 01:26 PM But, obviously, if the board in ExecSess votes to tear down the club house and build a celebration hall, it will be tough to keep that secret. But the deliberations leading up to that decision do remain secret -- suspicious, but secret. But keep in mind p. 487, line 17 ff. if you are a member of the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steve Posted October 25, 2013 at 01:27 PM Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 at 01:27 PM So, no decisions made must be shared? We experienced an Executive Session by our Church Council last night, in an attempt to hide the decision-making on procedures for calling a Special Meeting concerning our pastor. You're saying that according to RONR, the Council does not have to share with the rest of the congregation the procedures decided upon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted October 25, 2013 at 01:33 PM Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 at 01:33 PM So, no decisions made must be shared? We experienced an Executive Session by our Church Council last night, in an attempt to hide the decision-making on procedures for calling a Special Meeting concerning our pastor. You're saying that according to RONR, the Council does not have to share with the rest of the congregation the procedures decided upon? I don't understand exactly what it is you are referring to, but as Dr. Stackpole mentions, some decisions made in Executive Session will become apparent due to the nature of what was decided, but there is no obligation in RONR for an assembly to disclose anything they did in executive session. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted October 25, 2013 at 01:35 PM Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 at 01:35 PM So, no decisions made must be shared? We experienced an Executive Session by our Church Council last night, in an attempt to hide the decision-making on procedures for calling a Special Meeting concerning our pastor. You're saying that according to RONR, the Council does not have to share with the rest of the congregation the procedures decided upon? That kinda depends on what those "procedures" are. If the procedures involve only the Council (equivalent to a Board in RONR's terms) doing what needs to be done to fire the pastor, then all that remains within the Council. But if the procedures involve action or decisions by the congregation at large, the congregation will have to learn of them, of necessity. At any event, when they come to church next Sunday and see a total stranger sermoning at them, they might get a glimmer as to what went down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Harrison Posted October 25, 2013 at 01:54 PM Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 at 01:54 PM Though if the Council is subordinate to the congregation can't the congregation order the minutes of the Council meeting read at one of their meetings per RONR p. 487 ll. 13-20? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steve Posted October 25, 2013 at 01:57 PM Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 at 01:57 PM The Special Meeting is for the congregation as a whole to consider the dismissal of the pastor. Only the congregation can remove him, by a majority vote. So far, it is less than 12% of the congregation who have come forward to request such a vote. So, the Executive Session last night was allegedly to decide on the procedures to be followed during the congregation's Special Meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted October 25, 2013 at 02:00 PM Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 at 02:00 PM Though if the Council is subordinate to the congregation can't the congregation order the minutes of the Council meeting read at one of their meetings per RONR p. 487 ll. 13-20? Right, which is why the "deliberations" -- or highlights from them -- should not be included in those minutes. "Write what was done ["Motion to Fire the Pastor adopted"], not what was said ["Pastor Dan is a secret atheist and a supporter of FFRF]" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steve Posted October 25, 2013 at 02:00 PM Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 at 02:00 PM Chris, great point! I missed that, what with the volume of pages to check.... Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted October 25, 2013 at 02:06 PM Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 at 02:06 PM The Special Meeting is for the congregation as a whole to consider the dismissal of the pastor. Only the congregation can remove him, by a majority vote. So far, it is less than 12% of the congregation who have come forward to request such a vote. So, the Executive Session last night was allegedly to decide on the procedures to be followed during the congregation's Special Meeting. Well, that doesn't seem suspicious at all. Those "procedures" will be on full display as the Special Meeting, and if they start to go against RONR's procedural rules, or Special Rules of your Church, be ready with those points of order -- RONR, p. 247 ff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steve Posted October 25, 2013 at 02:27 PM Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 at 02:27 PM Thank you for your responses; tremendously helpful for our spiritually-minded members who want to retain the pastor, and lovingly/Biblically respond to those intent on punishing the pastor based on unsubstantiated rumors, standing up to the historic bullies in the congregation, and allegedly hurting the feelings of the bullies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted October 25, 2013 at 02:32 PM Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 at 02:32 PM Please, another Executive Session question: Let's hope that the OP, Richard, isn't side-tracked by all the replies to Steve's questions. And, for future reference, Steve should have started a new topic (especially while Richard's was still pending). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Blanka Posted October 25, 2013 at 02:32 PM Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 at 02:32 PM Well, that doesn't seem suspicious at all. Those "procedures" will be on full display as the Special Meeting, and if they start to go against RONR's procedural rules, or Special Rules of your Church, be ready with those points of order -- RONR, p. 247 ff. Seems to me, that if "procedures" is limited to things like, "OK Henry, it's up to you to bring up points A, B, C; George, it's best you stay away from D and E; and Mary, remember if someone brings up F, you'll have to address it." In other words, call it strategery brainstorming, no big deal. If on the other hand, "procedures" means things like limiting debate; well the proper, decent, and commonsense thing to do would be to ask the full assembly to adopt special rules, (or I suppose suspend the rules?), which of course then gives the assembly to reject or modify the request--my 2 cents, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted October 25, 2013 at 02:38 PM Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 at 02:38 PM Thank you for your responses; tremendously helpful for our spiritually-minded members who want to retain the pastor, and lovingly/Biblically respond to those intent on punishing the pastor based on unsubstantiated rumors, standing up to the historic bullies in the congregation, and allegedly hurting the feelings of the bullies... Most welcome... even though RONR doesn't deal with matters of the spirit. If the anti-pastor faction can only manage a 12% petition (or was that just the threshold for calling a special meeting? - check your bylaws) , you are probably home free. Let us know if there were any procedural excitements and we can tell you what you should have done (after the fact, of course! - fat lot of good that will do you, until you decide to fire the next pastor!). Please start a new Topic if you do however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Blanka Posted October 25, 2013 at 02:39 PM Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 at 02:39 PM which of course then gives the assembly to reject or modify the request--my 2 cents, anyway. Doh! For full two cents worth, insert "an opportunity"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted October 25, 2013 at 02:51 PM Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 at 02:51 PM If on the other hand, "procedures" means things like limiting debate; well the proper, decent, and commonsense thing to do would be to ask the full assembly to adopt special rules, (or I suppose suspend the rules?), which of course then gives the assembly to reject or modify the request--my 2 cents, anyway. You have the right idea that the assembly would need to adopt such things, but in the case of limiting debate, there's a specific motion for that purpose - Limit or Extend Limits of Debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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