Bylaw amendment

[Guest Copeland Bertsche]

What is the majority necessary to pass a subsidiary motion to amend a main motion to amend the bylaws. Is it a simple majority of the votes cast, or the same two-thirds majority it takes to carry the main motion? Please provide Robert's Rules reference. Thank you

[Thomas Ralph]

It is a majority, the same as any other amendment.

 

If the bylaws provide, as they should, that bylaw amendments require previous notice, then an amendment to the main motion is out of order if it would take the main motion outside the scope of the notice. [There is an argument about this not being the case if a majority of the entire membership is present, but I am not making it.]

[Dan Honemann]

"While amendments to a proposed bylaw amendment can be made in both the first and the second degrees (as applicable) and can be adopted by a majority vote without notice, they are subject to restrictions on the extent of the changes they propose." (RONR, 11th ed., p. 594, l. 33 to p. 595, l. 2.)

[Guest C Bertsche]

I was not adequately specific. Motion to amend bylaws requires a 2/3 majority.  Does a motion to amend the main motion require the same 2/3 majority or a simple majority. Intuitively, it should require the same 2/3, but some references seem to indicate that  a simple majority is the correct answer. Thank you.

[George Mervosh]

I was not adequately specific. Motion to amend bylaws requires a 2/3 majority.  Does a motion to amend the main motion require the same 2/3 majority or a simple majority. Intuitively, it should require the same 2/3, but some references seem to indicate that  a simple majority is the correct answer. Thank you.

 

Mr. Honemann answered this directly from the book, per your request, in post #3.

 

"While amendments to a proposed bylaw amendment can be made in both the first and the second degrees (as applicable) and can be adopted by a majority vote without notice, they are subject to restrictions on the extent of the changes they propose." (RONR, 11th ed., p. 594, l. 33 to p. 595, l. 2.)

[Gary Novosielski]

I was not adequately specific. Motion to amend bylaws requires a 2/3 majority.  Does a motion to amend the main motion require the same 2/3 majority or a simple majority. Intuitively, it should require the same 2/3, but some references seem to indicate that  a simple majority is the correct answer. Thank you.

Yes, you were adequately specific, and post #3 answered your question precisely.

 

Your confusion may stem from the fact that the answer said "a majority vote", while you were asking "what majority?"  When RONR says "majority vote" it always means the same thing:  more than half of those present and voting.

 

Your question, correctly phrased would be "what vote is required" and the answer is "a majority vote".   Adopting the amendment in its final form will still require a 2/3 vote (sometimes incorrectly called a "2/3 majority").

[Guest Mari Johnson]

We had a committee that was formed to make amendments to our bylaws.  The proposed amendments were sent out to all membership for review with a vote to be held at our May 20 meeting.  I agree with some of the amendments and not with others.  Can I, as a member, make proposed changes to the amendments before they come up for vote next month?  Or can I only vote yay or nay at the meeting on all amendments as stated?

[jstackpo]

As #3 wrote, you are fee to offer amendments which a majority can decide upon.

 

And, of course, speak against (and eventually vote against) any particular proposed bylaw amendments that are so hopeless that no degree of primary (or secondary) amendments to them could make them acceptable.

[Gary c Tesser]

....  Can I, as a member, make proposed changes to the amendments before they come up for vote next month?  Or can I only vote yay or nay at the meeting on all amendments as stated?

 

It looks to me as if posts 2 and 3, above, tell you that yes, you can.  Are you asking something that those posts don't deal with?

[Guest Mari Johnson]

I guess I'm asking when I can proposed a change.  Can I do it now via email (which is how we received the proposed changes)? Or only at the meeting before the vote? 

[Gary Novosielski]

We had a committee that was formed to make amendments to our bylaws.  The proposed amendments were sent out to all membership for review with a vote to be held at our May 20 meeting.  I agree with some of the amendments and not with others.  Can I, as a member, make proposed changes to the amendments before they come up for vote next month?  Or can I only vote yay or nay at the meeting on all amendments as stated?

You can propose changes to the language of the proposed amendment, as long as these changes stay within the scope of notice, which depends on what was sent out to the members to review.

 

Scope of notice is not a simple topic, but the idea behind it is that some members, on reviewing the notice, might consider the changes fairly minimal, and not think that it was important to show up at that meeting.  For example, one of the amendments might be raising the dues by five bucks a year.  Presumably a number of people might consider that to be a modest amount, and would not argue against it, so they might decide to stay home.

 

It would be in order for you, at the meeting, to move to amend that amount by striking five, and inserting $4.50.  Anybody who was okay with $5.00 would presumably be fine with $4.50 as well.  That change would stay within the scope of the notice previously given. 

 

But a proposed change to strike five dollars and insert $150.00 would be out of order.  Someone who was okay with a five dollar increase might not be okay with $150.  "Woah," they might say, "If I had known it was going to be that much, I sure would have shown up at the meeting to vote it down!" 

 

So while it is in order to propose some changes, it is not in order to propose any changes whatsoever.

[Josh Martin]

I guess I'm asking when I can proposed a change.  Can I do it now via email (which is how we received the proposed changes)? Or only at the meeting before the vote? 

 

The actual motion to Amend will need to be made at the meeting when the motion to amend the bylaws is pending, but you're free to discuss it via e-mail prior to that if you wish.

 

So while it is in order to propose some changes, it is not in order to propose any changes whatsoever.

 

Well, maybe. It's not clear to me from the facts provided whether the committee is proposing isolated changes or a revision.

[Gary Novosielski]

It's not clear to me from the facts provided whether the committee is proposing isolated changes or a revision.

 

It sounded to me like "a" change, but you're right, if the notice provided to members specified a wholesale revision, then the sky is the limit when it comes to amendments.