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Advisory Committee Quorum


Guest Jace

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Advisory Committee Meeting:

 

I submitted a product to an "advisory" committee for final approval to be considered by a "Secretary" of a department.  The committee is made up of volunteers that receive a per-diem for attendance.  The committee is supposed to have five members but one seat is vacant at this time.  One of the four members "T" is a hired designer for my waste-water product.  This product had to be reviewed and approved (stamped) by a Professional Engineer before being submitted.  An engineer for the Waste-water department also had to review and in this case submitted a strong supporting letter.   Historically the Secretary follows the recommendation of the committee with on at least one occasion added limitations advised by the "staff" engineer.  "T" and I have made full disclosure of our collaborations and intentions.

 

During the meeting in question one additional member was absent meaning only three of the panel are present.  When my turn came up "T" was compelled to honor previous offer to recuse himself meaning only 50% of the committee was there to vote.  The chair allowed me to present and then I asked for a vote of the seated members and was respectfully denied a vote.

 

I read in the frequently asked questions:

 

Question 9:
Isn't it true that a member who has a conflict of interest with respect to a motion cannot vote on the motion?

Answer:
Under the rules in RONR, no member can be compelled to refrain from voting simply because it is perceived that he or she may have some “conflict of interest” with respect to the motion under consideration. If a member has a direct personal or pecuniary (monetary) interest in a motion under consideration not common to other members, the rule in RONR is that he should not vote on such a motion, but even then he or she cannot be compelled to refrain from voting. [RONR(11th ed.), p. 407, ll. 21-31.]

 

I have requested and been denied a "special meeting"  In order to not alienate the process how do I avoid a repeat at the next meeting?

 

 

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It is true that the default rule is even if a member has a conflict and he should abstain he can't be compelled to do so.  However, if the governing documents of the body which is meeting specifically say that a member must abstain from voting when there is a conflict that rule would supersede what RONR says. 

 

So, the question is if the governing documents say anything like that.  If they do then the Chair was correct in not allowing a vote due to a lack of quorum (assuming that was indeed the case).  If the governing documents don't specify when someone must abstain you should be prepared to Appeal any ruling that a quorum doesn't exist due to this person being forced to abstain and be sure to cite the pages listed in the FAQ.

 

Edit:  It is unclear if you are a member of this Committee.  If you are not, only a Committee member would be allowed to Appeal the ruling so you might want to ask one of the Committee members to make the Appeal if necessary.

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Thank You Chris Harrison.    I am not a member of the committee and the organization documents are pretty short and sweet.  As a former Realtor I strongly believe in "Disclose Disclose Disclose" and think it will be wise to make proper disclosures and request a "roll call vote" 

 

On another thread I read about modifying the quorum while a quorum was seated before "T" voluntarily recuses himself.  Is it acceptable to ask the committee to forward their "opinion" of the merits of my product with 50% of the committee voting?   The full committee being FOUR getting a majority will be tricky again.

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During the meeting in question one additional member was absent meaning only three of the panel are present.  When my turn came up "T" was compelled to honor previous offer to recuse himself meaning only 50% of the committee was there to vote.  The chair allowed me to present and then I asked for a vote of the seated members and was respectfully denied a vote.

 

So far as RONR is concerned, he counts toward the quorum if he's present, and he doesn't if he's not. It's that simple. So a member who abstains due to a personal or pecuniary interest not in common with other members can just remain in the room and he'll still count toward the quorum.

 

If the organization's rules provide that a member must recuse himself, that might complicate things. I'm not sure whether such a member would count toward the quorum. Even if he didn't, this might also mean he wouldn't be counted in the number of members for the purposes of determining a quorum. So depending on how the quorum is defined, the committee might not lose a quorum.

 

On another thread I read about modifying the quorum while a quorum was seated before "T" voluntarily recuses himself.

 

A committee probably doesn't have the authority to set its own quorum.

 

Is it acceptable to ask the committee to forward their "opinion" of the merits of my product with 50% of the committee voting?

 

No rule in RONR prevents it, but you might need to check the rules of the organization to see whether this will do any good. If no quorum is present, this will not officially be the recommendation of the committee. Is the Secretary permitted to act without a recommendation from the committee?

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Thank you Josh:  I found where "Originally the Secretary appointed five members to the _____   committee"    In the committee's very brief "self written" rules it states that "Three make a quorum"  and there are no mentions of recusal.  

 

The secretary can take actions totally independent of the committee but wisely hesitates to do so.  I only know of one instance where he added a few limitations.

 

This discussion forum has been very helpful both on my subject and following a few of the other interesting subjects.  Who would have ever thought having meetings would get so complicated???   Jace

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With a total of 5 seats, one seat vacant from a resignation, one absent,  My friend "T" that has a position where he "should not vote" but must stay in the room to maintain quorum.  That leaves one member at large and the chair person. --   effectively one vote will approve or disapprove.     These meetings are quarterly and my product has some time-sensitivity.  Other than stressing the importance of the absent member calling in (which is allowed as a means of last resort)   Does anybody have a suggestion of a better way of getting an effective vote?    Thanks again    Jace

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With a total of 5 seats, one seat vacant from a resignation, one absent,  My friend "T" that has a position where he "should not vote" but must stay in the room to maintain quorum.  That leaves one member at large and the chair person. --   effectively one vote will approve or disapprove.     These meetings are quarterly and my product has some time-sensitivity.  Other than stressing the importance of the absent member calling in (which is allowed as a means of last resort)   Does anybody have a suggestion of a better way of getting an effective vote?    Thanks again    Jace

 

It is too late, of course, to do anything about what occurred at the last meeting. Is there some reason why you think that there will only be the same three members present at the next?

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The committee is made up of respected professionals that are BUSY.  They are getting a per diem but really it's still a voluntary position.   The Chairperson has to drive 2.5 hours each way.  My friend "T" spends two days reviewing the submittals prior to an overnight stay to attend the (6 hour scheduled) meeting.    And to top it all off -- my product is AMAZING.    

 

Attendance is always very good but I see a 50% chance of somebody being unable to attend again.  I wasn't notified of a quorum concern until walking in the door of the last meeting which took 1.5 days out of my time to attend.                          Jace

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Does anybody have a suggestion of a better way of getting an effective vote?

 

I'm not sure what you mean by an "effective" vote. If there are three members who vote, the vote could either be 3-0, 2-1, 1-2, or 0-3. But even if there were nine, or nine hundred, members voting, it could still come down to a one vote difference. Besides, the fewer members voting, the fewer members you have to convince that your product is amazing.

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With a total of 5 seats, one seat vacant from a resignation, one absent,  My friend "T" that has a position where he "should not vote" but must stay in the room to maintain quorum.  That leaves one member at large and the chair person. --   effectively one vote will approve or disapprove.     These meetings are quarterly and my product has some time-sensitivity.  Other than stressing the importance of the absent member calling in (which is allowed as a means of last resort)   Does anybody have a suggestion of a better way of getting an effective vote?    Thanks again    Jace

 

If you clear up the issue that the member with the personal or pecuniary interest not in common with other members still counts toward the quorum so long as he is present, I really don't understand what the problem is. A vote of 2-0 or 1-0 is just as "effective" as a vote of 3-0 or 3-1. Is your concern that one of the remaining members doesn't support your proposal?

 

Additionally, absent members cannot call in to a meeting to vote unless the organization's rules so provide.

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I'm the committee's favorite and they are going overboard to make sure nobody can detect it.  In the long run they are protecting my interests but it sure didn't feel that way at the time.

 

The very brief rules DO allow for a phone call in but the Attorney General has issued an opinion that it can't be for convenience sake only.  Thank you for clarifying that point.


If it boiled down to the same single voter at the last meeting he is the one with the least product knowledge and he would have to decide between a highly regarded product or a no-vote since he was the single voter and felt uncomfortable.  It would be a tough spot to put him in.

 

I believe the Chairperson will make sure all are present in June and one year later when I hope to move to the next level.    Thanks again:  I'll post again after June meeting.

 

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If it boiled down to the same single voter at the last meeting he is the one with the least product knowledge and he would have to decide between a highly regarded product or a no-vote since he was the single voter and felt uncomfortable.  It would be a tough spot to put him in.

 

Why isn't the chair voting? In a committee, the chair is as free to exercise his rights as any other member (at least so far as RONR is concerned).

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