Re-vote on defeated Motion

[Guest Guest - mo]

Our board failed to pass a motion to approve an item.  Debate followed and chairman called for Previous Question to end debate and called a for a vote.  the re-vote passed the motion.  Was this the correct way to handle this matter.  Should the Motion be made again and restated?

[jstackpo]

Not correct.  One the motion was defeated (I presume that is what you meant) the "first time", it stays defeated, and you go on to other things.

 

It might have been possible to reconsider the vote on the defeated motion, but you didn't go that way.

 

The motion may be made again ("renewed") next meeting/session.

[Thomas Ralph]

I hesitantly disagree with Dr. Stackpole. The fact that a motion was discussed and revoted upon is out of order, but the lack of a timely Point of Order on the matter would seem to me to mean that whatever motion was passed is, well, passed. Even if it was at the second time of asking.

[jstackpo]

Right.  The presidential procedure was atrocious, but without the points of order - that should have been made - the motion, in the end, was adopted.

 

(I've got to learn to stop posting answers during what should be nap-time...)

[Guest mo]

Thank you all very much for your most helpful information.

 

I am fairly new at this and have not encountered anything like this.

 

What would have been the proper way to handle this instance?

[jstackpo]

If I follow your sequence of events, after the first vote was taken, the chair should have (maybe he did) declare the motion defeated, and go on to the next business in order (on your agenda, if you had one) or just ask for any more new business.

 

At this point is entirely improper to continue debating the motion that was defeated.  Someone should have raised a point of order when that debate continued.  Also the chair has no business calling the previous question.  That is up to the members, and requires a 2/3 vote to adopt.

 

To help clear up the confusion may I recommend you take a look at RONRIB:

"Roberts Rules of Order Newly Revised In Brief", Updated Second Edition (Da Capo Press, Perseus Books Group, 2011). It is a splendid summary of all the rules you will really need in all but the most exceptional situations. And only $7.50! You can read it in an evening. Get both RONRIB and RONR (scroll down) at this link. Or in your local bookstore.

[Josh Martin]

What would have been the proper way to handle this instance?

 

If someone had actually wanted to consider the motion again, a member who voted on the prevailing side would have moved to Reconsider the motion, which is debatable and requires a majority vote for adoption. If that motion was adopted, then things would have progressed about the same as you describe, except that the chair should not have called for the Previous Question, although another member could have made that motion.

[Guest mo]

Thank you, Dr. Stackpole.

 

Just to clarify - the chair had not declared the motion defeated.  The debate started immediately after the roll call.   We are a small board of directors with 5 members.  We have both the 11th edition and the RONRIB - second edition.  I was unable to locate anything in either volume to clarify what we should have done differently.  The vote actually ended in a tie, which as I understand from RR is a defeat. Once the debate slowed the chair called the previous question.

 

Please help me clarify - what point of order should have been called and where is this covered in RR?

[Josh Martin]

The vote actually ended in a tie, which as I understand from RR is a defeat.

 

Yes, that's correct.

 

Once the debate slowed the chair called the previous question.

 

The chair can call for the vote when no one seeks recognition. The previous question is not used in such cases. The fact that debate "slowed" is not sufficient. Since we now know that this was a small board, however, it would have been appropriate for the chair to make that motion. He still can't close debate on his own. The Previous Question requires a 2/3 vote for adoption.

 

Please help me clarify - what point of order should have been called and where is this covered in RR?

 

A Point of Order should have been raised the moment a member started debating the motion (or the chair should have called the member to order on his own initiative). You can't keep debating a motion after the vote is taken. See RONR, 11th ed., pg. 387. This sentence should be especially helpful. "But if the chair gives ample opportunity for members to claim the floor before he puts the question, and no one rises, the right to debate cannot be claimed after the voting has commenced."

 

Members should have waited until the chair had declared the result, and then a motion to Reconsider would have been in order.

[Guest mo]

Thank you, Mr. Martin.

 

I understand now and located the Motion to Reconsider section in RONRIB.  Thank you so much for guiding me through this.  I have learned a lot from this forum and appreciate that it exists.

[Gary Novosielski]

I was unable to locate anything in either volume to clarify what we should have done differently.  The vote actually ended in a tie, which as I understand from RR is a defeat. Once the debate slowed the chair called the previous question.

 

When the first vote was taken, the chair should have declared that the motion was defeated.  And then should not have allowed any further debate on the topic, unless someone who had originally voted on the prevailing side the first time (i.e. who had voted No) later moved to Reconsider.  No one who voted Yes would be eligible to move to reconsider.  But anyone could make the same motion at the next meeting.

[Thomas Ralph]

Thank you, Dr. Stackpole.

 

Just to clarify - the chair had not declared the motion defeated.  The debate started immediately after the roll call.   We are a small board of directors with 5 members.  We have both the 11th edition and the RONRIB - second edition.  I was unable to locate anything in either volume to clarify what we should have done differently.  The vote actually ended in a tie, which as I understand from RR is a defeat. Once the debate slowed the chair called the previous question.

 

Please help me clarify - what point of order should have been called and where is this covered in RR?

The normal order of events is a motion is made, debated, then voted upon.

In such a small board, seconds are not required, and moving the Previous Question is not usual. But the chair is allowed to make motions and participate in debate.