Guest Kim Posted May 7, 2014 at 04:37 AM Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 04:37 AM Are there any official rules regarding the best way to vote to dispense funds. We have an X amount of $ that we have agreed to dispense to 5 different charities. We have 10 different charities to choose from. How do we vote for the top 5 charities? We have already agreed upon the amounts with a larger $ value going to charity #1 and progressively lesser values for the next 4 charities. Suggestions have been made that we each have 5 votes - those votes can go entirely to one charity or be spilt amongst the persons top 5 choices. These votes are then added up and the charities with most votes receives the funds. The concern with this is that this would be considered stacking the votes. Another suggestion was to have each person pick their #1 charity and the top 5 receive funds but members wish to have input on all 5 charities not just their #1. Another suggestion was to have people write down their top 5 in order but some members do not necessarily want to vote for 5 different charities but feel if they only write 3 down then their vote is not equal to those that write 5 charities down. This subject has caused lots of tension. We made a motion to delay voting until next month. Does Robert's Rules have any voting protocols for this situation? Thanks, Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary c Tesser Posted May 7, 2014 at 09:46 AM Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 09:46 AM No. RONR admirably advises you how to vote on what you decide, but not on how to decide on what you vote. (Apologies to Wilde) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted May 7, 2014 at 10:16 AM Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 10:16 AM This is where our own Mr. Stackpole might chime in with a suggestion to consider the Borda Count method, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted May 7, 2014 at 11:16 AM Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 11:16 AM Thanks for the endorsement (of Borda, not me) but... Borda is a voting and vote tabulating method of consolidating the voter's full range of preferences (not just their first choices) to come up with the single best (or best compromise) choice as the winner. But maybe... (This is NOT in RONR and I'll probably be deleted any moment now - read fast!) You may have to amend your bylaws to make this proper since a winner can be a non-majority (of first place votes). Ask the voters to individually rank all 10 candidate charities. They must rank all 10. Weight their rankings in a linear manner: (9 points for a top choice; 8 for the second... on down to 0 for the 10th) Do all the sums of how many points each charity gets (that will take a while...) Then give your money to the top 5 (or whatever). (This is how Borda would be used to select multiple Board members in a single election.) BTW, the "9 to 0" weighting system is exactly equivalent to what is done in a "normal" two person election: 1 point for the first choice; zero for the second, and add up the points. We, and RONR, have been using the Borda Count system all along -- maybe that will redeem this posting. Watch this space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transpower Posted May 7, 2014 at 12:51 PM Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 12:51 PM Preferential voting is described on pp. 425-428 of RONR (11th ed.). Also see p. 114 of Jennings Robert's Rules for Dummies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted May 7, 2014 at 01:08 PM Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 01:08 PM Right, but preferential voting is a very different way of scoring and tabulating the ranked choices of the voters. PrefVoting, for example in a simple case, will immediately eliminate "everybody's second choice" while Borda can declare that second choice (RONR's dark horse) to be the winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted May 7, 2014 at 02:01 PM Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 02:01 PM See also: Condorcet method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted May 7, 2014 at 04:38 PM Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 04:38 PM If you pick Condorcet, you will have to have MANY separate pair-wise votes (MANY = number of combinations of 10 taken 2 at a time) and there is no guarantee that you get a winner at all. That may take a while. And besides, I'm not clear how it could be used to pick the "top 5". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted May 7, 2014 at 04:59 PM Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 04:59 PM Are there any official rules regarding the best way to vote to dispense funds. We have an X amount of $ that we have agreed to dispense to 5 different charities. We have 10 different charities to choose from. How do we vote for the top 5 charities? We have already agreed upon the amounts with a larger $ value going to charity #1 and progressively lesser values for the next 4 charities. Suggestions have been made that we each have 5 votes - those votes can go entirely to one charity or be spilt amongst the persons top 5 choices. These votes are then added up and the charities with most votes receives the funds. The concern with this is that this would be considered stacking the votes. Another suggestion was to have each person pick their #1 charity and the top 5 receive funds but members wish to have input on all 5 charities not just their #1. Another suggestion was to have people write down their top 5 in order but some members do not necessarily want to vote for 5 different charities but feel if they only write 3 down then their vote is not equal to those that write 5 charities down. This subject has caused lots of tension. We made a motion to delay voting until next month. Does Robert's Rules have any voting protocols for this situation? Since each charity receives a different amount of funds, it seems to me that the default method under RONR would be to vote first on the charity receiving the largest amount. A majority vote is required to select a charity, and additional rounds of voting would be conducted if no charity receives a majority vote. This would then be repeated for the charity receiving the second largest amount, and so on and so forth. Other methods of voting, such as those you have discussed and those proposed by the members of this forum, will require the adoption of rules of order for the meeting in order to use them. Such a motion is debatable and amendable and requires a 2/3 vote for adoption. But maybe... (This is NOT in RONR and I'll probably be deleted any moment now - read fast!) You may have to amend your bylaws to make this proper since a winner can be a non-majority (of first place votes). I think a special rule of order or a rule of order for the meeting would be sufficient to use the Borda Count in this circumstance. It would need to be in the bylaws if it was to be used for the election of officers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted May 7, 2014 at 05:51 PM Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 05:51 PM If you pick Condorcet, you will have to have MANY separate pair-wise votes (MANY = number of combinations of 10 taken 2 at a time) and there is no guarantee that you get a winner at all. That may take a while. And besides, I'm not clear how it could be used to pick the "top 5". Actually, you can easily do a Condorcet analysis using a single ranked ballot from each voter, simulating the pairwise comparisons on a computer, so it takes only one "vote", but it does assume that all voters prefer their choices in a transitive ordering structure. So, It falls apart if they prefer Mr. R. to Mr. S. and Mr. S. to Mr. P., yet prefer Mr. P. to Mr. R. in a sort of Rock, Paper, Scissors fashion. I'm not sure if anyone has worked out how to choose the top n "faves", but it wouldn't surprise me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted May 7, 2014 at 09:30 PM Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 09:30 PM If you have gone to all the trouble of writing (or finding -- have you?) a program that can work with ranked ballots, why not just do it right (i.e., Borda) anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edgar Posted May 7, 2014 at 10:05 PM Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 at 10:05 PM We have already agreed upon the amounts with a larger $ value going to charity #1 and progressively lesser values for the next 4 charities. Maybe it's me but wouldn't it make more sense to first pick the charities and then decide how much each should get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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