vice president wanting to take vacant president spot

[152152]

The president of the board was kicked off the board by a vote of board members. A special elelection is coming to vote in a new president for the remainder of the term that ends this December 2014. The vice president wants to take this spot, his term isn't up until December 2015. Would he have to resign from his position before the vote to do this.

[George Mervosh]

The president of the board was kicked off the board by a vote of board members. A special elelection is coming to vote in a new president for the remainder of the term that ends this December 2014. The vice president wants to take this spot, his term isn't up until December 2015. Would he have to resign from his position before the vote to do this.

 

Assuming the board had the power to remove the President from the board, the following rule applies unless the bylaws expressly provide otherwise -  "If the president is removed from office, the vice-president thereby succeeds to the presidency, creating a vacancy in the vice-presidency which requires notice to fill"  RONR (11th ed.), p. 654fn

 

So why are you holding an election to fill the president's spot?  If your bylaws do require it, the VP need not resign to run.

[152152]

Who knows. it is a very tight click on the board. 2 married couples and their friend. The president was the odd man out so they voted him out and im sure are going to pull another friend on the board, I know that the problem is getting the members of the organization to the meetings to vote. out of about 240 votes there may be 20 votes cast.

[Josh Martin]

Who knows. it is a very tight click on the board. 2 married couples and their friend. The president was the odd man out so they voted him out and im sure are going to pull another friend on the board, I know that the problem is getting the members of the organization to the meetings to vote. out of about 240 votes there may be 20 votes cast.

 

Regardless of these factors, when there is a vacancy in the Presidency, the VP automatically becomes President unless the bylaws specifically provide otherwise. The board doesn't have a choice in the matter. There will then be a vacancy in the Vice President position.

 

As noted, this also assumes that the board has the authority to remove the President from office. It doesn't, unless the board elected the President in the first place or the bylaws grant the board the authority to remove the President from office.

[Rev Ed]

Unless the By-laws specifically state otherwise, the Vice President automatically became President when the President was removed from office.  As such he does not have to run for President, he IS the President. 

 

If RONR is your parliamentary authority, then take in a copy of it to the next meeting and show everyone the quote from George.

[PinetreeTom]

May I ask a slightly different question than the original one? Our situation is that our Board President resigned and the First Vice-President does not want to be President. Does the succession automatically flow to our Second Vice-President? What happens to the First Vice-President? Does s/he remain as First Vice-President? Does s/he revert to a Board Member at Large? Does s/he even remain on the Board?

[Chris Harrison]

The default rule (assuming the bylaws don't specifically address filling a vacancy in the office of President) is that the (1st) VP automatically becomes President and there isn't any choice in the matter (RONR p. 575 ll. 9-17).  That being said there was a discussion in this thread as to whether under certain circumstances the assembly can grant the VP's request to be excused from the duty to become President and either the next level VP would become President or an election would be held.

[David A Foulkes]

....... and either the next level VP would become President or an election would be held.

 

I'd hazard a guess that since no rule in RONR covers this (1st VP staying in office), and only states that the 1st VP (not 2nd, 3rd, etc) moves up the food chain to the top, an election would be required.

[Gary Novosielski]

I'd hazard a guess that since no rule in RONR covers this (1st VP staying in office), and only states that the 1st VP (not 2nd, 3rd, etc) moves up the food chain to the top, an election would be required.

Well, it does state that the numbered VP's move up the line in the event that the 1VP becomes president.  It doesn't say what happens if he does not, because I believe he always does.

 

I'm one of those who believe that the 1VP instantly becomes president, and can therefore only be excused (allowed to resign) from the office he now holds (president--thereby leaving him without either office).  When this happens, the former 2VP who is the current 1VP becomes the new president.  Vacancies therefore occur in the highest-numbered VP offices.

[Josh Martin]

Well, it does state that the numbered VP's move up the line in the event that the 1VP becomes president.  It doesn't say what happens if he does not, because I believe he always does.

 

I'm one of those who believe that the 1VP instantly becomes president, and can therefore only be excused (allowed to resign) from the office he now holds (president--thereby leaving him without either office).  When this happens, the former 2VP who is the current 1VP becomes the new president.  Vacancies therefore occur in the highest-numbered VP offices.

 

I'm not disputing that the 1st Vice President instantly and automatically becomes President when there is a vacancy in that office, but couldn't the VP be excused from the duty of becoming President before the President's resignation is accepted (and therefore before a vacancy exists)?

[Gary Novosielski]

I'm not disputing that the 1st Vice President instantly and automatically becomes President when there is a vacancy in that office, but couldn't the VP be excused from the duty of becoming President before the President's resignation is accepted (and therefore before a vacancy exists)

I look at it this way--the duty to become president, perhaps at a moment's notice, is a primary (sometimes the only) duty of the office of vice president.  No one who is unwilling to perform it should accept the office of VP in the first place. If they become unwilling, they should not seek to be excused from that one duty but rather resign from the office entirely, preferably before the President's resignation is accepted, so there's time to get a new VP and assure a smooth and instantaneous transition.

[David A Foulkes]

Well, it does state that the numbered VP's move up the line in the event that the 1VP becomes president.  It doesn't say what happens if he does not, because I believe he always does.

 

I'm one of those who believe that the 1VP instantly becomes president, and can therefore only be excused (allowed to resign) from the office he now holds (president--thereby leaving him without either office).  When this happens, the former 2VP who is the current 1VP becomes the new president.  Vacancies therefore occur in the highest-numbered VP offices.

 

For argument's sake - the 1st VP resigns, and his resignation is accepted by the assembly.  Nothing in RONR says the chain of VPs moves up, so there is a vacancy in the 1st VP office.  Before that vacancy is filled, the President resigns, and his resignation is also accepted.  Are there two vacancies now, or does the 2nd VP become President?  If so, what rule in RONR supports that?

 

If the President resigns, the 1st VP automatically becomes President, the 2nd VP automatically becomes 1st VP (filling that vacancy) and so on.  But if there is no vacancy in the 1st VP???

[Guest Edgar]

Am I the only one troubled by the fact that PinetreeTom seems not to know if his/her 1st Vice-president is male or female?

 

(Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

[Josh Martin]

I look at it this way--the duty to become president, perhaps at a moment's notice, is a primary (sometimes the only) duty of the office of vice president.  No one who is unwilling to perform it should accept the office of VP in the first place. If they become unwilling, they should not seek to be excused from that one duty but rather resign from the office entirely, preferably before the President's resignation is accepted, so there's time to get a new VP and assure a smooth and instantaneous transition.

 

All I'm saying is that if the 1st Vice President wishes to be excused from the duty of serving as President and the society wishes to grant this request, this seems to be in order so long as it is done before the vacancy in the presidency occurs. I'm not suggesting that this is what the 1st Vice President or the society should do.

 

Also, for the reasons Mr. Foulkes is getting at, it may be best to accept the President's resignation first in an organization where there are multiple Vice Presidents.

 

For argument's sake - the 1st VP resigns, and his resignation is accepted by the assembly.  Nothing in RONR says the chain of VPs moves up, so there is a vacancy in the 1st VP office.  Before that vacancy is filled, the President resigns, and his resignation is also accepted.  Are there two vacancies now, or does the 2nd VP become President?  If so, what rule in RONR supports that?

 

It would seem to me that, assuming there is nothing in the bylaws on this subject, there is no automatic succession for the presidency in this case. The society will need to use the vacancy-filling procedures in its bylaws, or if there are none, the vacancies will be filled by the same body which elected the positions in the first place, and previous notice must be given of the elections to fill the vacancies.

 

If the President resigns, the 1st VP automatically becomes President, the 2nd VP automatically becomes 1st VP (filling that vacancy) and so on.  But if there is no vacancy in the 1st VP???

 

I think the situation is the same as above.