executive meetings

[Guest dawn]

Are non-voting members allowed in an executive meeting during a vote?

[Guest Nancy N.]

As far as Robert's Rules is concerned, there are members -- full members, who have all the rights of membership -- and non-members, who have no rights.  Organizations that fiddle with intermediate classes, such as non-voting members, need to define for themselves what other rights those non-voting members do or do not have.

[Guest Nancy N.]

Come to think of it, there are two schools of thought on this, and my answer above (Post 2) is only the one I subscribe to, which I sometimes get the impression is the minority view.  The other view -- if I can render it fairly and accurately, like Fox News and The Syfy Channel -- goes something like, any modification stands by itself.  So that, if membership is modified by "non-voting", then non-voting is the only change, so no other rights are changed, in which case, sure, non-voting members are allowed in executive meetings, and they are also allowed to make motions, second them, debate them, give notice of motions, eat in the club cafeteria, feed the non-members, feed the non-members to the club crocodiles, and whatnot.

 

By the way, RONR has no such term as "executive meetings," and we generally recommend against using this term and similar ones, as they are ambiguous.  You might be referring to a meeting of the executive board (= board of directors); or you might be referring to a meeting of any group (the full membership, or a committee, or the board, or maybe one or two other categories I can't think of offhand but maybe someone else will wake up and prod me) that is held in executive session; or you might be referring to maybe one or two other things that I can't think of offhand but maybe someone else will wake up and prod me.

[Dan Honemann]

"Whenever a meeting is being held in executive session, only members of the body that is meeting, special invitees, and such employees or staff members as the body or its rules may determine to be necessary are allowed to remain in the hall. Thus, in the case of a board or committee meeting being held in executive session, all persons—whether or not they are members of the organization—who are not members of the board or committee (and who are not otherwise specifically invited or entitled to attend) are excluded from the meeting.  (RONR, 11th ed., pp. 95-96.)

 

As far as the rules in RONR are concerned, a person who has no right to vote is not a member of the body that is meeting (RONR, p. 3, ll. 1-15; p. 6, ll. 12-21).

 

An organization's bylaws may provide otherwise.

[Shmuel Gerber]

"Whenever a meeting is being held in executive session, only members of the body that is meeting, special invitees, and such employees or staff members as the body or its rules may determine to be necessary are allowed to remain in the hall. Thus, in the case of a board or committee meeting being held in executive session, all persons—whether or not they are members of the organization—who are not members of the board or committee (and who are not otherwise specifically invited or entitled to attend) are excluded from the meeting.  (RONR, 11th ed., pp. 95-96.)

 

As far as the rules in RONR are concerned, a person who has no right to vote is not a member of the body that is meeting (RONR, p. 3, ll. 1-15; p. 6, ll. 12-21).

 

An organization's bylaws may provide otherwise.

 

With apologies to Original Poster dawn, let me expand the discussion a bit and pose this question: How do these rules apply to a regular (i.e., not temporary) nonmember president or secretary?

[Dan Honemann]

With apologies to Original Poster dawn, let me expand the discussion a bit and pose this question: How do these rules apply to a regular (i.e., not temporary) nonmember president or secretary?

 

I am not aware of anything in RONR that says that these rules do not apply with full force and effect to a nonmember president or secretary. 

[Timothy]

This only thing that I see that might make a difference for a nonmember president or secretary is that their election might be taken as their permission to be in the room, so it would not be necessary to given them special permission each time the group goes into executive session. But the rule itself still applies and if there is reason for them not to be in the room, they might still be excluded, though it would be necessary to elect someone to fill those positions during executive session.

[Edgar Guest]

With apologies to Original Poster dawn, let me expand the discussion a bit and pose this question: How do these rules apply to a regular (i.e., not temporary) nonmember president or secretary?

 

Isn't this where someone suggests you post your new question as a new topic? Maybe on the august "Advanced Discussion" forum?

[Shmuel Gerber]

Isn't this where someone suggests you post your new question as a new topic?

 

Apparently so, although it is an extended discussion of dawn's question and not an entirely new question.

[Shmuel Gerber]

"Whenever a meeting is being held in executive session, only members of the body that is meeting, special invitees, and such employees or staff members as the body or its rules may determine to be necessary are allowed to remain in the hall. Thus, in the case of a board or committee meeting being held in executive session, all persons—whether or not they are members of the organization—who are not members of the board or committee (and who are not otherwise specifically invited or entitled to attend) are excluded from the meeting.  (RONR, 11th ed., pp. 95-96.)

 

As far as the rules in RONR are concerned, a person who has no right to vote is not a member of the body that is meeting (RONR, p. 3, ll. 1-15; p. 6, ll. 12-21).

 

An organization's bylaws may provide otherwise.

 

 

I am not aware of anything in RONR that says that these rules do not apply with full force and effect to a nonmember president or secretary. 

 

Of course the rules apply. :-)

The question was how. One might argue that the nonmember president and secretary count as staff members (especially if they are ordinary paid employees, which it would not be all that unusual for the secretary to be) and that, since they are "essential officers for the conduct of business" (RONR, p. 22), the rules determine it necessary for them to be present whenever business is conducted.

[Dan Honemann]

Of course the rules apply. :-)

The question was how. One might argue that the nonmember president and secretary count as staff members (especially if they are ordinary paid employees, which it would not be all that unusual for the secretary to be) and that, since they are "essential officers for the conduct of business" (RONR, p. 22), the rules determine it necessary for them to be present whenever business is conducted.

 

Well, I do not think that, as a general rule, these officers would be considered to be employees or staff members, but I suppose there could be cases in which they are.

[Shmuel Gerber]

Isn't this where someone suggests you post your new question as a new topic? Maybe on the august "Advanced Discussion" forum?

 

 

Apparently so, although it is an extended discussion of dawn's question and not an entirely new question.

 

You're not going to let me get away with that claim, are you? I don't know what's happening; there used to be some standards around here.