Parliamentarians Rights

[Guest Tom Frank]

I will try to make this question very easy and straightforward.

Does a parliamentarian have the right to make a proposal as if he was a sworn in committee member?

Can a parliamentarian start and initiative and request funding for that initiative.

I say no because he is not an elected member of the committee nor has he been sworn in.

Am I right or wrong? Also. Where can I find an exact ruling on this matter in Roberts rules or order text book.

[jstackpo]

If the parliamentarian, or anybody else for that matter, is not a member of the group, then he has none of the rights of group members. See p. 3.

[Richard Brown]

Dr. Stackpole is correct.

 

You might also keep in mind that a parliamentarian who is a member of the society does not participate in debate or make motions and does not vote, except when the vote is by ballot.  The pertinent provision in RONR is on page 467 and provides as follows:

 

"A member of an assembly who acts as its parliamentarian has the same duty as the presiding officer to maintain a position of impartiality, and therefore does not make motions, participate in debate, or vote on any question except in the case of a ballot vote. He does not cast a deciding vote, even if his vote would affect the result, since that would interfere with the chair's prerogative of doing so. If a member feels that he cannot properly forgo these rights in order to serve as parliamentarian, he should not accept that position. Unlike the presiding officer, the parliamentarian cannot temporarily relinquish his position in order to exercise such rights on a particular motion."

[Edgar Guest]

You might also keep in mind that a parliamentarian who is a member of the society does not participate in debate or make motions and does not vote, except when the vote is by ballot. 

 

But note that RONR is referring only to instances when the a member of the assembly is acting as its parliamentarian. The fact that a society's parliamentarian is a member of the society would not prohibit him from participating in an assembly (e.g. a committee meeting) at which he is not acting as its (i.e. the committee's) parliamentarian.

[Kim Goldsworthy]

 Where can I find an exact ruling on this matter in Roberts rules or order text book.

There is NO such reference for "swearing in" regarding committee appointments.

 

Once you are elected or appointed to a committee, you are on the committee. Period.

Robert's Rules of Order is silent on a secondary action or second qualification (here, "swearing in," whatever that means).

 

If you have customized rules which demand a swearing-in, then look to those rules for enforcement or acknowledgment.

[Edgar Guest]

There is NO such reference for "swearing in" regarding committee appointments.

 

I have to admit that, while I (and others) thought this was a question about the rights of a member-parliamentarian, Mr. Goldsworthy may be right in thinking it's a question about being sworn in (whatever that might mean).

[Guest Tom frank]

Gentlemen,

To help clarify my question. I am referring to a non member parlimentarian that is using his power of office to act as a sworn in member.

I am looking for a citation in the book of orders that shows he is not allowed to act this way.

[Richard Brown]

If he is not a member of the committee, he has none of the rights of a committee member.  That is about as elementary and fundamental as it gets.  He is there in an advisory capacity only and should not take part in debates.  He's there to advise the chair on matters of parliamentary procedure.  The chair, not the parliamentarian, makes the rulings.  However, the rules can be suspended to allow a nonmember to participate in debate, but not to vote.

 

It's covered pretty will on page 263 of RONR, 11th edition, under the heading, "Rules that cannot be suspended".

 

Here's an excerpt:

 

"Rules which embody fundamental principles of parliamentary law, such as the rule that allows only one question to be considered at a time (p. 59), cannot be suspended, even by a unanimous vote. Thus, since it is a fundamental principle of parliamentary law that the right to vote is limited to the members of an organization who are actually present at the time the vote is taken in a regular or properly called meeting (p. 423), the rules cannot be suspended so as to give the right to vote to a nonmember,*"

[Edgar Guest]

To help clarify my question. I am referring to a non member parliamentarian that is using his power of office to act as a sworn in member.

 

A committee should have no (regular) need of a parliamentarian in the first place. If he's not a member, ask him to leave (by which I mean tell him to leave).

 

Edited to add: Apropos of the title of this topic, parliamentarians have no rights; members have rights.

[Ann Rempel]

A committee should have no (regular) need of a parliamentarian in the first place. If he's not a member, ask him to leave (by which I mean tell him to leave).

 

Edited to add: Apropos of the title of this topic, parliamentarians have no rights; members have rights.

 

Just another thought. It depends. Some organizations do want the hired parliamentarian to attend certain committee members to serve as an adviser to the committee. Bylaws committees, some convention committees, and others come to mind. However, the parliamentarian has no membership rights in those cases. He or she is there simply to advise on the governing rules of the organization and the adopted parliamentary authority.

[Edgar Guest]

Some organizations do want the hired parliamentarian to attend certain committee members meetings to serve as an adviser to the committee.

 

Perhaps. But if the committee doesn't want him there, he's out (unless. of course, the organization says otherwise).

 

As you say, it depends.

[Ann Rempel]

Perhaps. But if the committee doesn't want him there, he's out (unless. of course, the organization says otherwise).

 

As you say, it depends.

 

Right. And thanks for correcting my mis-typing -- my fingers aren't always connected to my brain!