actions of board members

[bigtom68]

At our last meeting our vice chair accused a member of being escorted out of a local establishment. After he said this several members asked for specifics on the rumors and he would not make a statement only to tell one member he knows he was there. After further investigation it was found out that this was a private gathering of friends and had nothing to do with our society. Can the vice chair make these statements when it does'nt pertain to club buisiness, and can he be held accountable? We are a hunting and outdoorsmens club and lease property to enjoy the outdoors, in our May meeting we decided to do a survey of members to see what is the maximum ammount they would pay in order to keep the leases we have. The survey was done via phone by our chairmen and when the results were given at our Sept. meeting questions that were not pertaining to our finances were also asked. As a board member myself I was contacted by general members as to why our chair would say there is a group of members looking to take over leases on there own from the club. After contacting other members I was able to find out these statements were not told to all members just a select few. I know that members have stated that if the club decides to not renew a lease they are going to contact the land owner and lease it on there own, I fail to see where this is a problem. My question is are the survey results valid after these alligations and should our chair have to answer for his actions and if so how do we go about doing this?

[Richard Brown]

Keeping in mind that club members (and officers) are free to contact other club members outside of official club meetings and to talk about whatever they want to pretty much without restriction, you have several options if a large percentage of members are unhappy with the actions of the Chairman and vice chairman.

 

This is all covered in Chapter XX (Disciplinary Procedures) in RONR, 11th edition, starting on page 643.  You have several options, ranging from two forms of censure to removal from office, suspension and expulsion.  You cannot levy a fine unless it is authorized by your bylaws.  I urge you to get a copy of the 11th edition of RONR and to read Chapter XX thoroughly before deciding on any type of censure or disciplinary action as it is very complex and Chapter XX was revised extensively in the 11th edition.  Don't rely on a Robert's Rules of Order that you find on line.  It is not the "real thing" and is about 100 years out of date.

[Guest bigtom68]

In the past our board members have fined and placed members on probation just for things they have heard from other members. I ran for and got elected to try and change this because I feel that both sides should be heard (if your going to accuse someone you should have to state the facts ) and that is not happening. When I contact our chair he picks and chooses who he wants to believe rather than being bias, they have put members on probation without hearing from them and won't allow them to respond to the charges it is very frustrating.

[Richard Brown]

they have put members on probation without hearing from them and won't allow them to respond to the charges it is very frustrating.

 

All of that is most improper unless some strange provision in your bylaws provides for it.

[bigtom68]

Thanks for the help, our by-laws state the exact opposite of the rulings. Thats why I am trying to get to the bottom of this. I guess my main questions are do they have the right to call out  members who are doing nothing wrong inside and outside the club, during meetings or on the phone. I feel they have a strong personal vendetta towards some members and are using there position to there favor. I have been there target before and can say this.

[Richard Brown]

 I guess my main questions are do they have the right to call out  members who are doing nothing wrong inside and outside the club, during meetings or on the phone.

 

Again, all of this seems highly improper.  There is a procedure in RONR for "naming an offender" for obstinate or grave breaches of order committed in a meeting after repeated warnings,  but it should be reserved for extreme circumstances.  It is for offenses committed in a meeting but not for "offenses" outside of a meeting.  It is all part of the very complex provisions on disciplinary procedures in RONR and is far more complex that we can explain in short forum posts.  RONR devotes 26 pages to disciplinary proceedings in chapter XX.  I urge you to get it.

[bigtom68]

Thanks again and I will be getting a copy.

[bigtom68]

I requested and recieved minutes from our last meeting, the statements that our vice chair made about two members were not in them, should they be and if so how do I go about changing them? I would like them there if further action is taken.

[Edgar Guest]

I requested and received minutes from our last meeting, the statements that our vice chair made about two members were not in them, should they be . . . ?

 

No. The minutes are the official record of what was done at a meeting (e.g. motions), not what was said. If a member had raised a point of order to the effect that the vice-chair's remarks were out of order, that would have been recorded.

[bigtom68]

Once again thanks for the help have book on order hope to get it soon. One more question, our survey was to be about our finances alone but other questions were asked and now may go to vote without prior motion or disscusion, I would like to push this vote until we get proper motions made and disscus further. How do i go about this? Again thanks.

[Josh Martin]

Once again thanks for the help have book on order hope to get it soon. One more question, our survey was to be about our finances alone but other questions were asked and now may go to vote without prior motion or disscusion, I would like to push this vote until we get proper motions made and disscus further. How do i go about this? Again thanks.

 

It is permissible in a small board to vote on a proposal if it is clear to everyone even though there has not been a formal motion. If it is not clear, I would suggest raising a Point of Order to request a formal motion. In any event, however, debate is in order. If the chair attempts to put the question to a vote without allowing for discussion, I would again raise a Point of Order. A motion to Limit Debate or for the Previous Question (which immediately ends debate) would require a 2/3 vote for adoption.

 

If you wish to delay consideration of the issue longer (such as until the next meeting), the appropriate tool would be Postpone to a Certain Time, which is debatable and requires a majority vote for adoption.

[bigtom68]

I have been reading my RONR and find it helpful but still have a few problems. If I raise a point of order and the chair limits debate and it goes to a vote they need 2/3rds to adopt it ? Also should I make sure that all this info is in the minutes, because when I tell them it did not pass because of the 2/3rds vote there gonna tell me otherwise and adopt it anyway ?

[Josh Martin]

I have been reading my RONR and find it helpful but still have a few problems. If I raise a point of order and the chair limits debate and it goes to a vote they need 2/3rds to adopt it ?

 

Yes, a motion to Limit Debate or for the Previous Question (which ends debate immediately) requires a 2/3 vote for adoption.

 

Also should I make sure that all this info is in the minutes, because when I tell them it did not pass because of the 2/3rds vote there gonna tell me otherwise and adopt it anyway ?

 

Yes, I would make sure that this is included in the minutes. Among other things, the minutes should contain "all points of order and appeals, whether sustained or lost, together with the reasons given by the chair for his or her ruling." (RONR, 11th ed., pg. 470)