Guest David Posted October 10, 2014 at 05:06 PM Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 at 05:06 PM My local Town Council recently voted on an issue that required a 2/3rds majority. The vote was 6 to 4, and the President declared it to have passed. A couple of weeks passed before we in the community realized that this was in fact not a passing vote. What is the proper procedure here for the next meeting? The agenda has already been set, and this is not on it. Should a member of the Council simply offer a correction to the minutes (if they show "passed" for this issue)? What if they correction is disputed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted October 10, 2014 at 05:12 PM Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 at 05:12 PM My local Town Council recently voted on an issue that required a 2/3rds majority. The vote was 6 to 4, and the President declared it to have passed. A couple of weeks passed before we in the community realized that this was in fact not a passing vote. What is the proper procedure here for the next meeting? The agenda has already been set, and this is not on it. Should a member of the Council simply offer a correction to the minutes (if they show "passed" for this issue)? What if they correction is disputed? See http://www.robertsrules.com/interp_list.html#2006_18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Goldsworthy Posted October 10, 2014 at 05:15 PM Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 at 05:15 PM If Robert's Rules of Order applies, then . . . An error in vote treshold is not a continuing breach.The breach ends when the announcement of the voting result is made by the chair. Here, a 6 to 4 vote triggered the chair to say, "The motion is adopted."Unless someone raises a timely Point of Order or calls for a Division of the Assembly, the motion to be deemed as adopted.There is no correction to be done. -- Short of a motion To Rescind or To Amend Something Previously Adopted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted October 10, 2014 at 05:19 PM Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 at 05:19 PM My local Town Council recently voted on an issue that required a 2/3rds majority. The vote was 6 to 4, and the President declared it to have passed. A couple of weeks passed before we in the community realized that this was in fact not a passing vote. What is the proper procedure here for the next meeting? The agenda has already been set, and this is not on it. Should a member of the Council simply offer a correction to the minutes (if they show "passed" for this issue)? What if they correction is disputed? I notice you refer to this as being an action of your town council, which is almost undoubtedly a governmental entity. Depending on the exact nature of the matter being considered, I think you will have to look to state law and your local town council's charter and rules of order for an answer.... not to RONR. Edited to add: For example, if state law or some other controlling authority says that in order for an ordinance or resolution to be effective, it must be adopted by a two-thirds vote, then that rule supersedes RONR and, in my opinion, would be controlling. You probably need legal advice on this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David Posted October 10, 2014 at 05:27 PM Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 at 05:27 PM Unfortunately, this Town Council is claiming to not really be a "legislative body", and are hiding behind their 501c3 when it comes to compliance with any rules for governing entities. All they have are by-laws, which are rather brief, but they do refer to RONR as the parliamentary authority. Am I really to understand that nothing can be done because a Point of Order was not raised at the time? This vote was on a MAJOR issue that has sharply divided the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted October 10, 2014 at 05:30 PM Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 at 05:30 PM Am I really to understand that nothing can be done because a Point of Order was not raised at the time? If the rules in RONR control the matter, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Guest Posted October 10, 2014 at 05:31 PM Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 at 05:31 PM Am I really to understand that nothing can be done because a Point of Order was not raised at the time? This vote was on a MAJOR issue that has sharply divided the community. As Mr. Goldsworthy suggested, you can try rescinding (or otherwise amending) the adopted motion. Very little is carved in stone in RONR-Land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted October 10, 2014 at 05:32 PM Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 at 05:32 PM Unfortunately, this Town Council is claiming to not really be a "legislative body", and are hiding behind their 501c3 when it comes to compliance with any rules for governing entities. All they have are by-laws, which are rather brief, but they do refer to RONR as the parliamentary authority. Am I really to understand that nothing can be done because a Point of Order was not raised at the time? This vote was on a MAJOR issue that has sharply divided the community. Assuming that there is not a higher level rule, one above the bylaws, that required a 2/3 vote, it is too late to raise a point of order. It might be possible to rescind the action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted October 10, 2014 at 05:46 PM Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 at 05:46 PM Unfortunately, this Town Council is claiming to not really be a "legislative body", and are hiding behind their 501c3 when it comes to compliance with any rules for governing entities. All they have are by-laws, which are rather brief, but they do refer to RONR as the parliamentary authority. Am I really to understand that nothing can be done because a Point of Order was not raised at the time? This vote was on a MAJOR issue that has sharply divided the community.What kind of "town" is this? Does this "non-legislative body" town council have the ability to enact ordinances or resolutions that impact the residents of that town who do not voluntarily belong to some kind of organization such as the "Association of Residents of town Wierdo"?? Can it enact ordinances or is it purely advisory in nature, much like a chamber of commerce or neighborhood civic association would be? Is it really a "town council" or is that a misnomer? How are the people who sit on this town council selected? If they are elected, who elects them? I do agree that if it is not a governmental body of some sort and not subject to any state laws or local charter, then the rules in RONR might be controlling, but I find it hard to believe that is the case. Maybe it's an unincorporated town of some sort, like a "company town" wholly owned by a mining company. Strange. Very strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David Posted October 10, 2014 at 06:03 PM Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 at 06:03 PM It is a town in an unincorporated area of Los Angeles county. This "Town Council" was not created by the Board of Supervisors of the county, but the Board of Supervisors has accepted them as an "advisory body". There are many such Town Councils in the Los Angeles area. Council members are elected by the community. Believe me, the question of whether these local Town Councils are really legislative bodies is becoming a major problem. Some admit they are, while others resist. In fact, there is already legal precedent established that they are. They all enact resolutions that impact their communities. The issue at hand, with the voting mistake, actually has language binding the entire community to certain behavior, just as if it was a law or ordinance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Goldsworthy Posted October 10, 2014 at 06:14 PM Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 at 06:14 PM It is a town in an unincorporated area of Los Angeles county. This "Town Council" was not created by the Board of Supervisors of the county, but the Board of Supervisors has accepted them as an "advisory body". There are many such Town Councils in the Los Angeles area. Council members are elected by the community.You are referring to something the City of Los Angeles calls "Neighborhood Councils" at the city level.I have dealt with Neighborhood Councils of the City of Los Angeles, many times, but not with the county-level bodies.I do not know how "parallel" my experience with the city-level bodies correlates with the county-level bodies. Cut to the chase.This RONR Q-and-A forum can answer questions about Robert's Rules of Order.The forum cannot give legal advice, and cannot advise on laws of the State of California (like the Ralph M. Brown Act) or the county-level and city-level rules which apply to your Town Councils.So if you have a question about Robert's Rules of Order, then ask away.If you have a question about the law which applies, no one here can answer that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Guest Posted October 10, 2014 at 06:14 PM Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 at 06:14 PM Strange. Very strange. Must have something to do with places called "LA". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David Posted October 10, 2014 at 06:21 PM Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 at 06:21 PM Thanks all! I am definitely not asking for legal advice. Just asking about parliamentary procedure and explaining the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted October 10, 2014 at 07:19 PM Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 at 07:19 PM Thanks all! I am definitely not asking for legal advice. Just asking about parliamentary procedure and explaining the situation. Most of the responses you received have recognized this. It is not in the least bit unusual for Town Councils to be governed, for the most part, by Robert's Rules of Order. If some applicable statute or ordinance provides that the motion to which you refer requires a two-thirds vote for its adoption, then, based upon what you have posted, it has not been adopted, but if there is no such statute or ordinance, it has been adopted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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