Removal of an appointed officer

[Guest Jaclyn Durant]

According to our bylaws, the President appoints specific committee chairs who are members of the board of directors but not deemded officers. The remaining members of the board are elected and appointed officers (appointed by the President).  Since the President appoints both committee chairs and appointed officers, can the President, unappoint or remove them from their respective positions at will, or for cause, and does it require board approval (vote)?

 

 

[Edgar Guest]

The authority to appoint is (usually) the authority to disappoint (by appointing someone else).

[Richard Brown]

The authority to appoint is (usually) the authority to disappoint (by appointing someone else).

And, of course, to remove. . . .  which is done prior to or simultaneously with appointing someone else. 

 

To Guest Jaclyn, check your bylaws for a requirement that any of the president's actions re committee appointments require board approval.  Nothing in RONR requires it.  Any such requirement would be in your bylaws.

[Guest Guest]

Thank you very much to both Richard Brown and Edgar Guest.  Your prompt responses is very much appreciated.  To your point, Mr. Brown, the appointed committee chairs (officers) do not require board approval, however the other remaining officers do require board approvl according to our bylaws.

[Rev Ed]

 however the other remaining officers do require board approvl according to our bylaws.

 

If the Board approves the appointments, then the Board would be able to remove the person(s) from office.

[Richard Brown]

If the Board approves the appointments, then the Board would be able to remove the person(s) from office.

 

That's true, but the Board has to follow the procedure and the vote requirement for rescinding or amending something previously adopted.  RONR page 497. Also page 177.

 

If the president alone appoints them, then he has the power to remove them per RONR, pages 497 and 177.

[Edgar Guest]

If the Board approves the appointments, then the Board would be able to remove the person(s) from office.

 

That's true . . . 

 

Is it? The U.S. Senate must approve (some) Presidential appointments but I don't think that gives it the authority to remove them. Once the approval is given there's no unfinished action to rescind.

[Gary Novosielski]

Is it? The U.S. Senate must approve (some) Presidential appointments but I don't think that gives it the authority to remove them. Once the approval is given there's no unfinished action to rescind.

 

If we're using the US cabinet as an example, presidential appointments are subject to "the advice and consent of the Senate", but once approved, resignations are accepted by the president alone.

 

The subject of removal, as such, never comes up, because "requests" for resignation are never* refused, and some unsolicited resignations are not accepted.  But I doubt that the Senate has that power or surely someone would have tried to use it.

 

 

__________

* At least I know of no case..

[Kim Goldsworthy]

... President appoints specific committee chairs who are members of the board of directors ...

The remaining members of the board are elected and appointed officers (appointed by the President).  

...

can the President unappoint or remove them from their respective positions at will, or for cause, and does it require board approval (vote)?

In general, if a single party appoints, that single party un-appoints.

Methods by which committees can be appointed are as follows:

a)    Election by ballot.

[…]

b.)   Nominations from the floor (open nominations) with viva voce election (usually called simply “nominations from the floor”).  

[…]

c)    Nominations by the chair (with confirmation by voice vote).

[…]

d)    Appointment by the chair. […]

e)    Appointment by adoption of a motion naming members of a committee.

[…]

Unless the bylaws or other governing rules expressly provide that committee members shall serve “ . . . and until their successors are chosen” or for a fixed period, as “ . . . for a term of two years,” (in which case the procedure for their removal or replacement is the same as that for officers described on p. 654), committee members (including the chairman) may be removed or replaced as follows:  If appointment was as provided in paragraphs (a), (b.) ©, or (e), above, the removal or replacement of a committee member requires the same vote as for any other motion to Rescind or Amend Something Previously Adopted.  If appointment was by the president acting alone under paragraph (d), he may remove or replace committee members by his own act (see p. 177).

 

[RONR page 493 to 497.]

That’s five pages.

 

[Richard Brown]

If the Board approves the appointments, then the Board would be able to remove the person(s) from office.

 

That's true, but the Board has to follow the procedure and the vote requirement for rescinding or amending something previously adopted.  RONR page 497. Also page 177.

 

Is it? The U.S. Senate must approve (some) Presidential appointments but I don't think that gives it the authority to remove them. Once the approval is given there's no unfinished action to rescind.

 

Yes, it is, per page 177 lines 25 - 32 and page 497 lines 6 - 11. If the president nominates the committee members but the Board must confirm them and makes the final appointment, as in this case, only the Board has the power to remove members and it does so using the rules applicable to the motion to amend or rescind something previously adopted.

 

The president alone has the power to remove those appointees who he alone has the power to appoint.

 

The two groups or classes of appointments are treated differently, just as they are appointed differently.  See post number 4 re the two methods of appointing.

 

Edited to add:  In reading back over the original poster's posts, it's not clear to me now which appointees someone wants to remove.  Even the appointing process doesn't seem that clear now.  But, the rule is clear:  The president can remove those people who he alone appoints.  Only the Board can remove those people the board appoints or confirms.

[Edgar Guest]

If the president nominates the committee members but the Board must confirm them and makes the final appointment, as in this case, only the Board has the power to remove members and it does so using the rules applicable to the motion to amend or rescind something previously adopted.

 

But in this instance the president is appointing, not nominating, and the board is simply approving (or not), not appointing. If, as you say, the board "makes the final appointment", it could appoint someone else. But it can't.

[Richard Brown]

But in this instance the president is appointing, not nominating, and the board is simply approving (or not), not appointing. If, as you say, the board "makes the final appointment", it could appoint someone else. But it can't.

I'm going by what it says in RONR on pages 177 and 497.  What the original poster described is a classic case of the president making a nomination and the assembly (or the board) having the final say as to whether or not to approve....and thereby appoint... that person.

 

Did you read post No 4?

[Edgar Guest]

What the original poster described is a classic case of the president making a nomination and the assembly (or the board) having the final say as to whether or not to approve....and thereby appoint... that person.

 

I guess I'm still confused by your apparent equating of "appointment" with "nomination" and of "approval" with "appointment".

 

I think I'll eventually figure it out.

[Richard Brown]

I guess I'm still confused by your apparent equating of "appointment" with "nomination" and of "approval" with "appointment".

 

I think I'll eventually figure it out.

It's not helped by the fact that RONR discusses "appointments by the chair" and "nominations by the chair (with confirmation by voice vote)".  (parentheses part of original  text).  I am equating the process in this case of appointment by the president with approval by the assembly (or board) to be equivalent.  Perhaps it's not, but that's my take on it.