Lay on the table British usage

[post54]

My question will be following the British use of the term 'Lay on the table' as outlined in RONR in the footnote on p.217.

On an Agenda would I write those exact words 'Lay on the table' as a heading for tabled items or would I use the heading 'Tabled items'

[Gary c Tesser]

My question will be following the British use of the term 'Lay on the table' as outlined in RONR in the footnote on p.217.

On an Agenda would I write those exact words 'Lay on the table' as a heading for tabled items or would I use the heading 'Tabled items'

 

Neither, unless your organization is British.

[post54]

Neither, unless your organization is British.

Please assume my organization is British.

[Josh Martin]

My question will be following the British use of the term 'Lay on the table' as outlined in RONR in the footnote on p.217.

On an Agenda would I write those exact words 'Lay on the table' as a heading for tabled items or would I use the heading 'Tabled items'

RONR just notes that the British usage exists as a explanation for why there is often confusion on this topic. It provides no guidance on how this actually works. So we don't know the answer to your question.

If you could more clearly explain exactly what your assembly is doing, then perhaps we can figure out an answer. How is it that these items are getting on the agenda to begin with?

Please assume my organization is British.

If your organization is British, it is probably not using RONR as its parliamentary authority.

[post54]

My organization is not British but if there is a British vs American way of doing something it would do it the British way.

A heading of Tabled Items is being used. Issues are discussed and decisions if able are made but the actions cannot be carried out usually due to weather. Once the action or project is completed the item would be moved to Unfinished Business and a note would be made that the project was finished.

[Edgar Guest]

Please assume my organization is British.

 

My organization is not British . . . 

 

I see. So you want us to tell you how to use non-standard language?

[post54]

I see. So you want us to tell you how to use non-standard language?

I would like to know if Tabled Items is an acceptable heading according to RONR.

[Josh Martin]

My organization is not British but if there is a British vs American way of doing something it would do it the British way.

Then you need a different book. RONR is the leading authority on the common parliamentary law in the United States. I understand that many societies from other countries use it anyway, but if it is your society's desire to do things "the British way," RONR and this forum will not be very helpful resources for that goal.

 

A heading of Tabled Items is being used. Issues are discussed and decisions if able are made but the actions cannot be carried out usually due to weather. Once the action or project is completed the item would be moved to Unfinished Business and a note would be made that the project was finished.

Well, "Tabled Items" is certainly not the appropriate heading for whatever this is. I'm not sure what the appropriate heading is, because the facts are still rather vague. You say that "issues are discussed and decisions if able are made." So is there an actual motion pending? If so, what happens to the motion? Is it postponed? Is it pending while the meeting adjourns? Something else?

 

(I'm not entirely certain what you describe is the meaning of "tabled" in British usage either. Perhaps some of the Canadians on the forum can chime in. I understand the British usage is common there as well.)

 

I would like to know if Tabled Items is an acceptable heading according to RONR.

It is not.

[Rev Ed]

Then you need a different book. RONR is the leading authority on the common parliamentary law in the United States. I understand that many societies from other countries use it anyway, but if it is your society's desire to do things "the British way," RONR and this forum will not be very helpful resources for that goal.

 

Well, "Tabled Items" is certainly not the appropriate heading for whatever this is. I'm not sure what the appropriate heading is, because the facts are still rather vague. You say that "issues are discussed and decisions if able are made." So is there an actual motion pending? If so, what happens to the motion? Is it postponed? Is it pending while the meeting adjourns? Something else?

 

(I'm not entirely certain what you describe is the meaning of "tabled" in British usage either. Perhaps some of the Canadians on the forum can chime in. I understand the British usage is common there as well.)

 

I can only guess that the British version is based on the Westminster system where a bill is 'tabled' when it is introduced.  For more information, see this link to Wikipedia.  Under the Westminster system, a bill normally goes through an introductory 'reading" (i.e. it is announced that this bill is being introduced and it's 'tabled'), it then gets a second 'reading' (i.e. briefly discussed and voted on), then heads to Committee, before a final (and third) 'reading' where it is ultimately passed or defeated.

[post54]

I can only guess that the British version is based on the Westminster system where a bill is 'tabled' when it is introduced.  For more information, see this link to Wikipedia.  Under the Westminster system, a bill normally goes through an introductory 'reading" (i.e. it is announced that this bill is being introduced and it's 'tabled'), it then gets a second 'reading' (i.e. briefly discussed and voted on), then heads to Committee, before a final (and third) 'reading' where it is ultimately passed or defeated.

Thank you Rev Ed, that Wikipedia article cleared things up for me. My organizations tabled items are on an active work bench.

[post54]

Then you need a different book. RONR is the leading authority on the common parliamentary law in the United States. I understand that many societies from other countries use it anyway, but if it is your society's desire to do things "the British way," RONR and this forum will not be very helpful resources for that goal.

Well, "Tabled Items" is certainly not the appropriate heading for whatever this is. I'm not sure what the appropriate heading is, because the facts are still rather vague. You say that "issues are discussed and decisions if able are made." So is there an actual motion pending? If so, what happens to the motion? Is it postponed? Is it pending while the meeting adjourns? Something else?

(I'm not entirely certain what you describe is the meaning of "tabled" in British usage either. Perhaps some of the Canadians on the forum can chime in. I understand the British usage is common there as well.)

It is not.

[post54]

Then you need a different book. RONR is the leading authority on the common parliamentary law in the United States. I understand that many societies from other countries use it anyway, but if it is your society's desire to do things "the British way," RONR and this forum will not be very helpful resources for that goal.

Thank you Mr. Martin for making me feel unwelcome to this forum.

[Josh Martin]

Thank you Rev Ed, that Wikipedia article cleared things up for me. My organizations tabled items are on an active work bench.

 

What you described in Post #4 didn't sound very active to me.

[Dan Honemann]

My organization is not British but if there is a British vs American way of doing something it would do it the British way.

A heading of Tabled Items is being used. Issues are discussed and decisions if able are made but the actions cannot be carried out usually due to weather. Once the action or project is completed the item would be moved to Unfinished Business and a note would be made that the project was finished.

 

I doubt that our British friends will be very happy with you describing this as the British way of doing things.

[Guest Nancy N.]

...   Thank you Mr. Martin for making me feel unwelcome to this forum.

Nothing that Mr. Martin did.

[Guest rubberbandman]

As a regular visitor to this forum, I am perplexed at those who seek guidance and when given it seem to think they have to ask the same question over and over again changing only a word or phrase.  If 'post54' were a little clearer in his questions and then accepted the answer, maybe he wouldn't feel the need to continue with the same essential question.  And, don't disparage those who inject some subtle humor in their answers.

[g40]

A few years ago, I had a boss who had come to the US from England. On one occasion - as we were discussing differences in British English and American English, we discussed the term "table" (but not in the strict parliamentary sense). When I explained that in American usage, it is common that when a topic or matter is to be put aside for a time - that is expressed as "to table" the issue/topic. "Oh!", he said, "That explains why when I hear or say that something is to be 'tabled',  I am all ready to discuss or work on it -- but the rest of the group just moves on."

[Guest Nancy N.]

...  Thank you Mr. Martin for making me feel unwelcome to this forum.

 

... And.  After all the time and diligent effort freely given to you, post54, over the past few days and weeks -- not least from Josh Martin -- this (I quail at naming it) is [Don't look, Dan, here comes unprecedented billingsgate] Uncalled For.

 

(O I'm so embarrassed.  But not ashamed. )

[Shmuel Gerber]

Thank you Mr. Martin for making me feel unwelcome to this forum.

 

... And.  After all the time and diligent effort freely given to you, post54, over the past few days and weeks -- not least from Josh Martin -- this (I quail at naming it) is [Don't look, Dan, here comes unprecedented billingsgate] Uncalled For.

 

(O I'm so embarrassed.  But not ashamed. )

 

Let's not get too flustered about this. I'm sure you'll believe me when I explain that post54 had been assuming that he* was welcome to the forum to take and do with as he pleases, so now he was just thanking Mr. Martin for reminding him that that isn't the case, and that the purpose of the forum is for having discussions about Robert's Rules of Order. [P.S.: Your check has cleared, so meet me in a couple of hours and I'll give you the title to the Brooklyn Bridge as discussed; your share of the toll revenues is already on its way.]

 

*used in the generic (sexist) way, since I don't know if he's a he or a she