Content of the minutes

[Guest Monica]

I am in dispute of the recording of our minutes.  We record the motions but necessarily the facts that lead to the motion being presented. It is my understanding that the secretary is to provide the record of the action taken at the meeting, and in turn the minutes need to clearly memorialize the facts.  However, I cannot find this stated in Roberts Rules anywhere.  Can anyone help me find this?

[Edgar Guest]

The minutes are the official record of what was done at a meeting (e.g. motions), not what was said (e.g. debate).

 

The proper form and content of minutes (including sample minutes) is discussed on pp.468-476.

[jstackpo]

 I cannot find this ["memorialize the facts"] stated in Roberts Rules anywhere.  Can anyone help me find this?

Nope.  

 

That's because, as EG (#2) implied, it just ain't there. 

[Hieu H. Huynh]

Also see FAQ #15.

[Guest Nancy N.]

Guest Monica, I, reading along, have my doubts that the previous three replies really answered your question, though none of them is inherently flawed.  If you'd like more clarity, please ask on.  (Questions promote brain growth, and well into adulthood, and beyond.  I read this in "Scientific American" a few years ago.)

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N. B.  I made up the part about "and beyond":  the rest is square business.

[Guest Monika]

Question - If a BOD member intentionally changes the minutes prior to forwarding the minutes to the BOD and this is discovered and discussed at the meeting, does this conversation not get recorded within the minutes?  If the board decides to change how the minutes are sent to the members because of this impropriety is it only the motion that is recorded in the minutes without recording the actions that lead to that motion?  It seems to me that a record of these improper actions should be recorded so there is a record of the action.  Thank You

 

[jstackpo]

First question:  Why is a BOD member (other than the Secretary who is writing the minutes) reading and having an opportunity to "edit" the minutes prior to the minutes being presented to the Board at all?

 

Do you have a rule to allow or cause that to happen?  --  RONR sure doesn't.

 

Second Question: Are you sending BOD minutes out to all the association members as a matter of course?  That is NOT an RONR requirement either.

 

If the minutes in question are actually association meeting minutes (not BOD minutes) why is any Board member, or the Board itself,  involved at all?  Again, such involvement is not an RONR requirement.

 

I guess we all need a little more clarification as to what is going on.

[Gary c Tesser]

(I think first this lovely wonderful woman is due a dear deep and respectful hug.  Sometimes the kind of crap that Monika is having to wrestle with is unconscionable.)

 

(Um. Maybe better Nancy wrote this.)

 

[Edited to fix a typo]

[Edited to clarify 'crap']

[Edgar Guest]

It seems to me that a record of these improper actions should be recorded so there is a record of the action. 

 

If it didn't happen at a meeting it doesn't belong in the minutes.

[Guest Guest]

The new board allowed all communications to be forwarded and sent out by the president, including the meeting minutes per her request.  At the last BOD meeting in Dec. it was discovered that the president changed to minutes prior to forwarding them. It was also noted that she did it to intentionally to dis-credit another member.  A motion was approved that all communications will be sent out by the secretary.  We reviewed the proper procedure regarding any changes made to the minutes. We tabled approving the minutes that were in question until the next meeting.  Since we are a small organization, it is our practice to send the minutes out to the BOD prior to our meeting.  I just received the minutes from the Dec. meeting and it only states that the Nov. minutes would be reviewed at the next meeting. It does not state why the minutes were not approved.  We spent a considerable amount of time addressing this issue.  It seems to me that we need a record of the presidents improper actions that lead up to the motion that was passed.  I understand that the minutes need to reflect what was done and not what was said.   I also feel this behavior and some of the conversation should be in the minutes in order to have a history of events on record. 

That is the series of events that took place. I would like to find something in the rules that would allow this to happen.  My edition is the 10th edition so some of the references above don't work for me. 

Thank you, in advance, for your help.

[Edgar Guest]

I understand that the minutes need to reflect what was done and not what was said.   I also feel this behavior and some of the conversation should be in the minutes in order to have a history of events on record.

 

You could make a motion to censure the president for her actions. You could even remove her from office (see FAQ #20) The motion (whether it was adopted or lost) would be recorded in the minutes. But none of the "conversation". Not even "some of the conversation".

 

Regardless of how you feel, the minutes are not intended to be a newsletter.

[Guest Guest]

Thank you. I think I will take your suggestion. 

[Gary c Tesser]

It may be instructive to note that virtually nobody remembers the actual minutes from the Constitutional Convention that (around 1787?) birthed our (for us Americans) national Constitution (it took me over a half hour to even find the name of the scribe), but James Madison's personal notes are revered by scholars everywhere* (and are at least part of the reason he is sometimes called the father of the Constitution) (and notwithstanding that they do contain so much excruciatingly boring stuff that they might easily pass for the minutes).  Minutes are not supposed to be entertaining or action-packed:  they are a dry recitation of what was enacted.  If you want the back-story, which, yes, of course can be informative and even sometimes eye-opening and action-packed, you go to someone's memoirs or personal notes, or hopeful film-script.

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*At least in my house!

[Gary Novosielski]

If you desire to have the reasons for a particular action memorialized, you can put it in the form of a resolution with Whereas clauses preceding the actual Resolved clause.  The entire resolution would then be recorded verbatim in the minutes.

 

But you still need to be careful not to put anything in the Whereas clauses that would amount to preferring charges against an individual or using any words that would be a breach of decorum if spoken in debate.