Vacant Committee Position

[scawthon]

We have an instance where we have vacant committees.  I did not know if there were any rules that apply to this situation. 

 

We are a congregational lead church, howbeit, very small.  Until we get more involvment some of us have multiple committee chairs.  But, due to workloads, some remain vacant. 

 

We have a counsil composed of church officiers and committee chairs.  The decisions we make then go before the members at the monthy business meeting for their decicion on our recommendations.  By default, the Pastor is on every committee.  He claims that he is the defacto committee chair and is making unilateral decisions that would normally be empowered to that committee.  Is there anything that addresses this issue in Robert's Rules?

[Hieu H. Huynh]

Do your bylaws give the Pastor that power? What do your bylaws say regarding committees?

[Tom Coronite]

Even if he were the chair of each (or any) committee, that position alone would not give him authority to usurp the authority of the committee.

 

(not to mention it doesn't sound very congregational to me, a pastor in a congregational church)

[Josh Martin]

We have an instance where we have vacant committees. I did not know if there were any rules that apply to this situation.

We are a congregational lead church, howbeit, very small. Until we get more involvment some of us have multiple committee chairs. But, due to workloads, some remain vacant.

We have a counsil composed of church officiers and committee chairs. The decisions we make then go before the members at the monthy business meeting for their decicion on our recommendations. By default, the Pastor is on every committee. He claims that he is the defacto committee chair and is making unilateral decisions that would normally be empowered to that committee. Is there anything that addresses this issue in Robert's Rules?

I'm a bit puzzled by exactly what the situation is. You say in your first sentence that you have "vacant committees." In the second paragraph, you note that some people are serving as chairs of multiple committees, but that some remain vacant. The title of the thread is "Vacant Committee Position." So what exactly is vacant? Are the chairmanships (and perhaps some positions on the committee) vacant, or are there, in fact, entire committees which are vacant?

If only the chairmanships (and perhaps some of the other committee positions) are vacant, then the Pastor's claims are nonsense, unless there is something in your organization's rules which would back them up. The Pastor cannot declare himself to be the "de facto" chair, and even if he could, decisions are made by the committee as a whole, not by the chair alone.

On the other hand, if there are committees without any members (except the Pastor), then things are a bit different. It is not quite correct that the Pastor is the "de facto" chair of the committee, but since he is the only member of the committee, he could indeed elect himself as Chairman Pro Tempore of the committee and, since he is the only member of the committee, whatever the Pastor decides will be the same as what the committee decides, whether he is the chair or not. It should be noted, however, that when a committee has only one member, motions from that committee require a second.

[Gary c Tesser]

... t should be noted, however, that when a committee has only one member, motions from that committee require a second.

 

I venture to point out that Mr Martin is referring not to motions at meetings of that (one-person) committee, but motions made at meetings of the parent body, to which the committee is reporting.  (If I read him correctly.)

[Josh Martin]

I venture to point out that Mr Martin is referring not to motions at meetings of that (one-person) committee, but motions made at meetings of the parent body, to which the committee is reporting.  (If I read him correctly.)

Yes, that is correct.

[scawthon]

Josh; you have it correct.  

 

The multiple chairman roles are to get work done because we lack member involvement.  So, some of us have been elected chairs for a couple different committees.  But, there is only so much a few of us can do.  This, hopefully, will change.  Our pastor just stated that because there are committees with no members he is de facto committee and has the authority to do things without any consent. Your point is excellent that any motion requires a 2nd.  

 

I have my answer.  Thanks all for your help.  The Moderator is one of my roles.  Although our Constitution and Bylaws say meetings shall be conducted in accordance with Robert's Rules before I became Moderator our meetings were awful lasting hours with no decisions.  I am on a vigorous learning curve learning all I can about Robert's Rules and trying to educate members on them.  I am somewhat successful in using Robert's Rules and getting people more use to them.  It's tough getting them to understand protocol, but they are starting to see some good from it.  Our business meetings went from 2-3 hours to 30 minutes.  

[Edgar Guest]

It should be noted, however, that when a committee has only one member, motions from that committee require a second.

 

Your point is excellent that any motion requires a 2nd. 

 

Well, a committee of one can adopt a motion without a second. I believe Mr. Martin was referring to instances when the committee presents its motion to its governing body.

[Hieu H. Huynh]

...  I am on a vigorous learning curve learning all I can about Robert's Rules and trying to educate members on them...  

 

I suggest getting the Right Book and the In Brief version if you haven't done so already. And keep coming back here with more questions!

[Gary c Tesser]

scawthon, on 05 Jan 2015 - 7:56 PM, said:

...  I am on a vigorous learning curve learning all I can about Robert's Rules and trying to educate members on them... 

I suggest getting the Right Book and the In Brief version if you haven't done so already. And keep coming back here with more questions!

 

Well said, Mr Huynh.

 

scawthon, in particular, let me urge you to get an RONR - IB at once, at read it at once.  Brook no delay.  If there is a bookstore in your time zone, or in your galactic cluster if you have a car and can get around, that pretty much means today.  If, G-d forbid, you are currently being killed by a crocodile, which typically entails being dragged into the depths to drown, whereupon the beast will -- again, this is a prospect to be avoided -- at his or her leisure chomp off bits to eat, that's an acceptable excuse.  Otherwise, you buy your copy and read it then and there, of course moving aside from the counter so that the other customers can buy and eat their copies, and if the store provides chairs you may sit, but do not leave before you have read it:  this first reading should take maybe an hour or so unless you're a college graduate with hopelessly corrupted intellectual processes.

 

Visitors to this website, and people who have computers for some other unfathomable purpose, might instead buy their copies by phone or Internet, so I suppose we must wait for them to read their copies until the copies are delivered.  Remember to tip the delivery person liberally, he or she having done all the work while you scarcely bestirred your callipygous netherquarters to pick up a phone or type.  You may lock the door, and sitting is optional at this point, but, given your scarce bestirring, forget about eating or sleeping or petting the cat.  (Fluffy!  Get down from there!)

 

Finally, if you prefer, here on your frequent visits to the world's premiere Internet parliamentary forum, to call the things people ask "quertions," well, it's been  done before, and I'm trying to get it to catch on.

[Gary Novosielski]

Our pastor just stated that because there are committees with no members he is de facto committee and has the authority to do things without any consent.

If quacks like rubbish, it probably is rubbish. ...or something like that.

I see his logic, in a way: He's an ex-officio member of all committees, so no committee can be truly empty--it always has him on it. Which makes him, by default, chairman, which means he can get anything passed in the committee. He's a committee of one.

But committees (especially committees of one) have no power unless explicitly empowered by the parent body.  They can only recommend.  Therefore, the pastor can't make any unilateral decisions. All he can do is recommend (by way of a motion) some action or another to the parent body. And he could have done that without being on any committee.

So there's effectively no effect.

[Richard Brown]

So there's effectively no effect.