Guest Fernando Martinez Posted January 20, 2015 at 07:10 PM Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 at 07:10 PM I am on Leesburg's Town Council. We recently voted in a vice-mayor. One of our members did not vote. They were present but new and didn't understand what constitutes an abstention. The mayor at the time assumed it was a yes and the vote was 6-1 with one nay vote. There was no discussion and the person who wanted to abstain, did not correct the mayor. Since she did not vote or abstain, what is the status of the vote. I say it is still 6-1 and can't be changed unless the vote is brought up for reconsideration and we vote again. Any ruling on this?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted January 20, 2015 at 07:13 PM Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 at 07:13 PM I am on Leesburg's Town Council. We recently voted in a vice-mayor. One of our members did not vote. They were present but new and didn't understand what constitutes an abstention. The mayor at the time assumed it was a yes and the vote was 6-1 with one nay vote. There was no discussion and the person who wanted to abstain, did not correct the mayor. Since she did not vote or abstain, what is the status of the vote. I say it is still 6-1 and can't be changed unless the vote is brought up for reconsideration and we vote again. Any ruling on this?? We don't issue rulings, but a timely point of order was required to correct the Mayor's procedural error of counting an abstention as a yes vote. The result stands as announced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Guest Posted January 20, 2015 at 07:14 PM Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 at 07:14 PM Since she did not vote or abstain . . . If she didn't vote she abstained. The chair (the mayor?) shouldn't have counted it as a "yes" vote but, either way, it wouldn't have affected the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted January 20, 2015 at 07:21 PM Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 at 07:21 PM We here don't "rule", but we do carry on about the Rules in RONR. To the extent (and ask your town attorney about this) that you follow RONR (plus, presumably, some special municipal rules of your own), you are correct -- not voting IS an "abstention" whether the abstainer knew the rule and the right words or not. The mayor got it wrong. It isn't clear to me whether the 6 "yes" votes you mentioned actually (incorrectly) includes the one abstention, but at others said (as I was typing my answer) it didn't make any difference. The result - a new vice-mayor - stands. Please congratulate him/her for me. And it is probably too late for a "reconsideration" anyway -- unless Leesburg has special rules for reconsider which are different from RONR's rules. And a reconsideration of an election vote isn't proper, in the first place -- p. 444. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ben Posted January 20, 2015 at 11:13 PM Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 at 11:13 PM What if a point of order was made but presiding officer ignorantly or incorrectly ruled that an abstention counts as a yes vote - meeting was then adjourned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Guest Posted January 20, 2015 at 11:14 PM Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 at 11:14 PM It's time to move on. Just don't let it happen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted January 21, 2015 at 12:36 AM Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 at 12:36 AM What if a point of order was made but presiding officer ignorantly or incorrectly ruled that an abstention counts as a yes vote - meeting was then adjournedIn that event, a member should have promptly appealed from the decision of the chair. It's still too late to correct the error at this time, nor does it matter in this case, since the motion would still have passed no matter how the abstention was counted.Such a ruling is so clearly erroneous, however, that it may behoove the assembly to Rescind the ruling at the next meeting, to ensure that it is not used as a precedent by a presiding officer in the future. If the chair regularly makes such poor rulings, it may be prudent to get a new presiding officer. EDIT: Thanks to Edgar for catching my error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Guest Posted January 21, 2015 at 12:49 AM Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 at 12:49 AM . . . it may behoove the assembly to Rescind the ruling at the next meeting, Rulings can be rescinded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted January 21, 2015 at 01:52 AM Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 at 01:52 AM Rulings can be rescinded? Uh... nope. I seem to have slipped back into the 10th edition for a moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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