Timing around issuing cheques and adopting minutes

[M. Sommerville]

Hello,

 

I am in a bind and could really use some help. 

 

The issue involves two motions: the first was a motion was voted as 3 in favour, 2 opposed and 2 abstained. The motion was minuted to have failed according to our interpretation of Roberts' Rules at that time. A second motion was then made to that countered the first motion, which was voted on as 2 for, 1 opposed and 4 abstain. The motion was also minuted to have failed according to our interpretation of Roberts' Rules at that time. We thought we needed a majority, but we did have quorum, so it was a majority not including the abstainers.

 

Upon review, the first motion did in fact pass when we don't count the abstainers. Without consulting anyone on the board, the minutes of the meeting were changed to reflect that the first motion passed, and the second failed.

 

I would like to make a motion to review these motions, is that my best move? 

 

Also, how did the first motion pass and the second fail?

 

Finally, can a cheque be issued for these bonuses before the minutes have been approved by the board? It seems shady to me that the minutes can be changed to reflect a different outcome without those changes being reviewed by the board first... 

 

HELP!

[Edgar Guest]

Firstly, the minutes should record what was actually done, even if what was done was wrong. You can't change what happened by changing the minutes. And minutes are approved, not "adopted".

 

Secondly, although the chair was in error in declaring that the motions were defeated, it's too late now to raise a point of order (i.e. to complain about it).

 

The good news is that defeated motions can be made again ("renewed") as if they had never been made before. It would have been worse if a motion had been improperly declared to have passed.

[Richard Brown]

Adding to the response by Mr. Guest, motions become effective upon adoption, regardless of when the minutes are approved.  It is a common misconception that motions do not become effective until the minutes are approved.  One has nothing to do with the other, except that the minutes should accurately reflect what was done.

 

And it is the chair's announcement of the vote, if not challenged by a timely point of order, that controls.  If it is later realized that the chair's announcement was wrong, it's too late to do anything about it, except, as Mr. Guest, suggested, make the motion again at the next meeting.

 

Edited to add:  If the chair had erroneously declared that a motion had been adopted, and the mistake wasn't caught until  after the meeting, it would be necessary to rescind the motion at a future meeting if the only error was the chair's erroneous announcement of the vote.

 

All of that may seem harsh, but it is the rule except in certain specific situations spelled out in RONR.  It is the chair's announcement of the result that controls unless immediately corrected.    It's a "you snooze, you lose" sort of thing. 

[M. Sommerville]

This is truly amazing. I am so relieved. 

 

Is there a reference for this? It's a bit of hot issue and I'd like to site some evidence. 

 

I've read chapter 2, section 4 on "The handling of a motion," but can not find any specifics on this.

 

Thank for you responses!

[Josh Martin]

I would like to make a motion to review these motions, is that my best move? 

 

I think your best move to start with is a Point of Order that the motions were not adopted (although they should have been), followed by an Appeal if necessary. After that's settled, you can make one of the motions again if you would like to do so.

 

Also, how did the first motion pass and the second fail?

 

Both motions should have passed, but because the chair declared that they failed, they failed. It's too late to correct that error now.

 

Finally, is the President allowed to write a cheque for these bonuses before the minutes have been approved by the board?

 

No, nor is he allowed to write the check after the minutes have been approved, because the motion failed.

 

 

Is there a reference for this? It's a bit of hot issue and I'd like to site some evidence. 

 

See Official Interpretation 2006-18.

[M. Sommerville]

Thank you so much. I appreciate the guidance.