Guest Caroline Hammonds Posted May 18, 2015 at 06:45 PM Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 at 06:45 PM If one board member is bullying another member and is asked to stop and does not stop, can the bullied member leave the closed session before it is adjourned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted May 18, 2015 at 06:47 PM Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 at 06:47 PM If one board member is bullying another member and is asked to stop and does not stop, can the bullied member leave the closed session before it is adjourned? Closed or open has nothing to do with it. It seems to me that the member doing the bullying is the one who should be ejected. Where is your presiding officer? Asleep? Why does no one call the bullying member to order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted May 18, 2015 at 06:48 PM Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 at 06:48 PM Maybe the presiding officer is the bully? It happens... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted May 18, 2015 at 06:49 PM Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 at 06:49 PM Well, whether he can be physically restrained and kept from leaving is more of a legal question than a parliamentary one. Issues such as false imprisonment come to mind. Are you really asking if he can be prevented from leaving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted May 18, 2015 at 06:49 PM Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 at 06:49 PM If one board member is bullying another member and is asked to stop and does not stop, can the bullied member leave the closed session before it is adjourned?Any member is free to leave a meeting whether or not it is held in closed session. It would seem, however, that it would be preferable to order the bullying member to leave. See RONR, 11th ed., pgs. 644-649 for information on discipline for offenses occurring during a meeting.Maybe the presiding officer is the bully? It happens...That will make things more complicated, but there are still methods to deal with such behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Caroline Hammonds Posted May 18, 2015 at 07:02 PM Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 at 07:02 PM Thank you. It is a school board; I am the newest member; it is a good old boys club; and I will not be spoken to that way again. Just wanted to know what I could do. Everyone just sat there, including the president. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted May 18, 2015 at 07:10 PM Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 at 07:10 PM Thank you. It is a school board; I am the newest member; it is a good old boys club; and I will not be spoken to that way again. Just wanted to know what I could do. Everyone just sat there, including the president.Since this is a public body, that may make things somewhat more complicated. You should be sure to check whether the school board's rules or applicable law have anything to say on this subject, as such rules take precedence over RONR.So far as RONR is concerned, however, no one is compelled to remain at a meeting. More importantly, if a member habitually violates the rules of decorum, the assembly has the authority to remove this person from the meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintCad Posted May 18, 2015 at 07:32 PM Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 at 07:32 PM What form did the bullying take? Insults? Violations of parliamentary laws? As a school board do you use RONR? What does the President do when you object? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Caroline Hammonds Posted May 18, 2015 at 07:38 PM Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 at 07:38 PM Thank you. I will try to get an answer from the state school board association. They do follow RONR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Caroline Hammonds Posted May 18, 2015 at 07:46 PM Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 at 07:46 PM Insults and personal verbal attack against me for presenting documented negative information about something. The attack was on me, not the information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintCad Posted May 18, 2015 at 07:55 PM Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 at 07:55 PM Then when you asked the President to call the member to order (p 645-646), what happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Guest Posted May 18, 2015 at 08:00 PM Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 at 08:00 PM Then when you asked the President to call the member to order (p 645-646), what happened? I think we can assume that Ms. Hammonds, the newest member of a "good old boys" school board, did no such thing. If she does nothing else, I think Ms. Hammonds should become a member of this humble forum. No salesman will call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Caroline Hammonds Posted May 18, 2015 at 08:16 PM Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 at 08:16 PM I couldn't find those pages. Can you send me a link or copy and paste, please? I didn't do or say anything to the president. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Guest Posted May 18, 2015 at 08:22 PM Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 at 08:22 PM Then when you asked the President to call the member to order (p 645-646), what happened? I couldn't find those pages. Can you send me a link or copy and paste, please? Mr. Cad is referencing the 11th Edition of Robert's Rules of Order, Newly Revised. Some here assume everyone has (or will rush out to buy) a copy of The Right Book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintCad Posted May 18, 2015 at 08:23 PM Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 at 08:23 PM They are out of the full RONR. If the president is not doing anything, you stand and don't even have to be recognized. You simply say, "Mr President, I call the member to order." and then sit. It is then up to the president to call him to order or rule the point not well-taken. Since it is a point of order, you can Appeal the decision if it is not well-taken. One thing about parliamentary law is whether through maliciousness or ignorance, you often need to take the steps to protect your own rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintCad Posted May 18, 2015 at 08:29 PM Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 at 08:29 PM Mr. Cad is referencing the 11th Edition of Robert's Rules of Order, Newly Revised. Some here assume everyone has (or will rush out to buy) a copy of The Right Book.I don't necessarily assume it, but I do know from experience that if anyone wants to start quoting RONR they should have a copy handy to counter "those people" that think they know what's in the book like Calling the Question, the Suspend the Bylaws motion, the chair Adjourning the Meeting Early and the ever-popular You're Wrong Because I Know I'm Right Even Though I've Never Actually Read Robert's [sic] Rules motion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Caroline Hammonds Posted May 18, 2015 at 08:48 PM Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 at 08:48 PM Saint Cad-thanks for the information. I should probably get the book. It was only my second meeting-I highly doubt the president would have known what to do if I had stood up and said that. It was only his second meeting as the president. It was the former president who was blasting me. This is all very new to me. I was happy to find this forum. I am a teacher. My passion is for kids and teachers. Our school is rather messed up at the moment. That is why I ran for the board. The majority want me gone. Not going to happen. Thank you for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted May 19, 2015 at 08:04 PM Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 at 08:04 PM A similar thing happened to me at my first school board meeting 16 years ago. I had made some comments on a pending resolution, when one of the <ahem> "veteran" members obtained the floor, pointed her finger across the table at me, and started in: "If you think that you're going to waltz in here and start making changes to the way we do business, you're sadly mistaken! You had better--" "Point of order!" says I. "Mr. President, would you please direct the member to address her remarks to the chair? "He's right, Louise," says the president. "You'll have to address the chair." Somewhat flustered, she resumed, but was so confused and disoriented by her inability to phrase her criticism in the third person (or figure where to point her finger), that she simply sputtered to a stop about two sentences later. Her later attempts to bully the board were similarly dealt with. Ultimately, with all the fun gone out of board meetings (for her) she did not seek reëlection. P.S. I'm now in my sixth term on the board, and my second as board president. Fight the good fight--but with decorum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Guest Posted May 19, 2015 at 08:19 PM Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 at 08:19 PM I should probably get the book. You might want to start with RONR In Brief. It covers the 20% of the rules you'll use 80% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Caroline Hammonds Posted May 20, 2015 at 02:37 PM Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 at 02:37 PM Good idea Edgar Guest. Gary N. thank you for sharing your experience. Almost the same exact words were used. Could you please explain why you said asked the remarks be said to the chair? If the chair and the president are the same-not sure there would have been help. Using decorum is worth it just for the simple fact that I will NOT lower myself to their level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Harrison Posted May 20, 2015 at 02:54 PM Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 at 02:54 PM Could you please explain why you said asked the remarks be said to the chair? If the chair and the president are the same-not sure there would have been help. You said it was the former (not current) President who was attacking you. Generally speaking it is the President who presides over the meeting (though that isn't always the case). By requiring any remarks be directed towards the Chair (presiding officer) that would hopefully reduce the likelihood of breaches in decorum. When you get your copy of RONR check out pages 391-394 which discusses decorum in debate (and it will be helpful to cite when you raise a Point of Order calling this person to order). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintCad Posted May 20, 2015 at 03:21 PM Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 at 03:21 PM Good idea Edgar Guest. Gary N. thank you for sharing your experience. Almost the same exact words were used. Could you please explain why you said asked the remarks be said to the chair? If the chair and the president are the same-not sure there would have been help. Using decorum is worth it just for the simple fact that I will NOT lower myself to their level. RONR p23 l 26-30 states "As a general rule, when additional reference to the presiding officer is necessary in connection with addressing him by his official title, members speak of him as 'the chair' - as in, 'Mr. President, do I understand the chair to state ...?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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