Guest Fred H. Rick Posted June 3, 2015 at 05:46 AM Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 at 05:46 AM Is there a chapter that is specific to a pastor speaking to a congregational meetingthus causing unintentioal influence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted June 3, 2015 at 06:21 AM Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 at 06:21 AM No, not as such. If he is a member of the church or if your bylaws or church rules give him the right to participate in meetings, he has the right to be there and to participate. If he is not a member of the church, then he has no rights at all... not even the right to be there... unless your bylaws or some higher authority give him that right. He can, of course be granted permission to attend and participate. RONR does cover meeting protocol and decorum in general, but nothing specific as to a pastor's presence or conduct at congregational meetings. You need to look to your church bylaws and other church governing documents and rules for guidance. If you can be more specific, we might be able to be more specific ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted June 3, 2015 at 07:10 AM Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 at 07:10 AM No ... unless your bylaws or some higher authority give him that right. How high? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted June 3, 2015 at 10:28 AM Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 at 10:28 AM How high? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transpower Posted June 3, 2015 at 01:15 PM Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 at 01:15 PM Ordinarily the pastor is an employee of the church, not a member of the congregation, and so cannot speak in favor of, or against, any motion which is brought up by a member. However, the assembly (or the chair, without objection) could grant such permission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Guest Posted June 3, 2015 at 01:29 PM Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 at 01:29 PM Ordinarily the pastor is an employee of the church, not a member of the congregation . . . Can't she (or he) be both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Coronite Posted June 3, 2015 at 01:30 PM Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 at 01:30 PM Ordinarily the pastor is an employee of the church, not a member of the congregation, and so cannot speak in favor of, or against, any motion which is brought up by a member. However, the assembly (or the chair, without objection) could grant such permission. I don't want to offtrack the thread into a church polity discussion, but I dispute that assertion. Pastors (including me) are very commonly members of the church and have membership rights. The IRS considers us not employees, but self-employed contractors and we are taxed as such. It's a different set up than for employees such as secretaries and custodians. To bring it back to RONR: i would agree that secretaries and custodians (for example) are ordinarily employees of the church and as such don't have membership rights by virtue of their employment. Pastors very frequently have membership rights (as I do) and can speak to motions, make motions, even vote. I'm guessing that is the OP's situation and the question is not so much can a non-member speak, but rather is a particular member afforded more consideration due to his position, And according to RONR, the simple answer would be no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted June 3, 2015 at 03:10 PM Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 at 03:10 PM Is there a chapter that is specific to a pastor speaking to a congregational meetingthus causing unintentioal influence? Isn't that usually the intention of a pastor speaking to a congregation--to influence them? i thought that was what they did for a living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Coronite Posted June 3, 2015 at 04:04 PM Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 at 04:04 PM Good point. And isn't that the intent of all who speak in debate? To voice an opinion and hopefully sway others toward seeing it the same way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fred H.Rick Posted June 3, 2015 at 04:08 PM Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 at 04:08 PM From the pulpit I can agree. My question refers to the floor of a voters meeting that included the topic of salary issues for the staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Coronite Posted June 3, 2015 at 04:13 PM Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 at 04:13 PM I think that was understood. Is your pastor a member? If so, your pastor has the rights of membership, absent some local rule to the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transpower Posted June 3, 2015 at 08:56 PM Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 at 08:56 PM Even if the pastor is a member of the congregation, he should not debate his salary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Guest Posted June 3, 2015 at 09:11 PM Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 at 09:11 PM Even if the pastor is a member of the congregation, he should not debate his salary! Well, he (or she) probably shouldn't vote on it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted June 3, 2015 at 09:12 PM Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 at 09:12 PM Why not? Are you saying he can't negotiate for a living wage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted June 3, 2015 at 09:24 PM Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 at 09:24 PM We don't know that the discussion was about the pastor's salary. The OP said it was to discuss staff salaries: From the pulpit I can agree. My question refers to the floor of a voters meeting that included the topic of salary issues for the staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted June 3, 2015 at 09:28 PM Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 at 09:28 PM Why not? Are you saying he can't negotiate for a living wage?It was not because we do not have that right, but to give you in ourselves an example to imitate.https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Thessalonians+3%3A9&version=ESV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Guest Posted June 3, 2015 at 09:36 PM Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 at 09:36 PM It was not because we do not have that right, but to give you in ourselves an example to imitate.https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Thessalonians+3%3A9&version=ESV I think that's admirable but on this forum we're concerned with The Right Book, not The Good Book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted June 3, 2015 at 10:33 PM Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 at 10:33 PM I think that's admirable but on this forum we're concerned with The Right Book, not The Good Book.Tempora mutantur, nos et mutamur in illis.... http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempora_mutanturFrom ROR 1915: ... it being a general rule that no member should be present in the assembly when any matter relating to himself is under debate.... http://www.bartleby.com/176/43.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Guest Posted June 3, 2015 at 10:36 PM Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 at 10:36 PM From ROR 1915 . . . That's the old testament. The 11th edition is the new(est) testament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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