Nan_P2950 Posted July 19, 2015 at 12:37 PM Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 at 12:37 PM "AVOIDING THE USE OF MEMBERS' NAMES" p. 393, ll. 1 - 10... as I understand that we should, as much as possible, avoid the use of members' name in debate.... We also have "COMPLAINTS" (after NEW BUSINESS)... are we to avoid the use of members' name here, as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transpower Posted July 19, 2015 at 12:44 PM Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 at 12:44 PM If it's an officer you're complaining about, you should use the title of the officer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan_P2950 Posted July 19, 2015 at 12:46 PM Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 at 12:46 PM If it's an officer you're complaining about, you should use the title of the officer. No, not the officer... from one member to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Guest Posted July 19, 2015 at 02:50 PM Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 at 02:50 PM "AVOIDING THE USE OF MEMBERS' NAMES" p. 393, ll. 1 - 10... as I understand that we should, as much as possible, avoid the use of members' name in debate.... We also have "COMPLAINTS" (after NEW BUSINESS)... are we to avoid the use of members' name here, as well? It depends on the formality (or lack thereof) of the assembly. In many assemblies it's quite natural (and not entirely improper) to refer to "Jim" and "Jane". In others, it might be "Mr. Smith" and "Ms. Jones". In still others it might be "The distinguished gentleman from Kentucky". I think the prohibition is more on addressing members by name rather than referring to someone (be it a member or not) by name. After all, names are what we use to refer to people. And if the subject of the "complaint" isn't present, how else would you refer to him or her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hieu H. Huynh Posted July 19, 2015 at 03:18 PM Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 at 03:18 PM Also, I think the following should be kept in mind: "A member or officer has the right that allegations against his good name shall not be made except by charges brought on reasonable ground. If thus accused, he has the right to due process - that is, to be informed of the charges and given time to prepare his defense, to appear and defend himself, and to be fairly treated." (RONR 11th ed., p. 656, ll. 1-6) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan_P2950 Posted July 19, 2015 at 04:28 PM Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 at 04:28 PM It was more of this... To make a long story short... Dick made a motion to kill (to rescind) an event that was being hosted by two clubs. It was 2nd, debated, and voted by ballot. We've had some issues with the annual event and but took most of us by surprise that Dick wanted to stop hosting this event. Motion was passed. Jill made a motion to have just our club host this event, like we have done before combining with another club. Passed. In the incoming months, Jane, the secretary, for both clubs, became increasingly pissed at our club. Jane has shown that she will not help with this event. So Jill had asked Jane (who happens to be Dick's wife) why she's so pissed at Jill (for taking up the event as we have done before) when it was Dick that moved to kill the motion.... She got up and said that it was ALL of you who voted to kill the event. She didn't know how many voted yes to kill, and how many voted no to not kill (Note: at the time, I didn't know I was supposed to announce the result of the ballot voting). Well... it got worst from there... I wasn't sure, as chair, on how to handle this situation. I realized now that there were a few mistakes I made... she isn't pissed at those mistakes because she doesn't know (my mistakes) to make a Point of Order..... She was more at "hey, don't blame my husband, you're the one who VOTED to kill the event!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted July 19, 2015 at 05:46 PM Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 at 05:46 PM We also have "COMPLAINTS" (after NEW BUSINESS)... are we to avoid the use of members' name here, as well?What does this heading titled "Complaints" entail? I don't like the sound of it.So Jill had asked Jane (who happens to be Dick's wife) why she's so pissed at Jill (for taking up the event as we have done before) when it was Dick that moved to kill the motion.... She got up and said that it was ALL of you who voted to kill the event. She didn't know how many voted yes to kill, and how many voted no to not kill (Note: at the time, I didn't know I was supposed to announce the result of the ballot voting). Well... it got worst from there... I wasn't sure, as chair, on how to handle this situation. I realized now that there were a few mistakes I made... she isn't pissed at those mistakes because she doesn't know (my mistakes) to make a Point of Order..... She was more at "hey, don't blame my husband, you're the one who VOTED to kill the event!!"In my opinion, this was all highly improper, but the fact that members were referred to by name isn't the issue. You should have handled the situation by immediately calling Jill to order when she asked the question. These sorts of squabbles are not appropriate for a meeting. Additionally, if this is what "Complaints" usually looks like, it should be discontinued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan_P2950 Posted July 19, 2015 at 06:41 PM Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 at 06:41 PM What does this heading titled "Complaints" entail? I don't like the sound of it.In my opinion, this was all highly improper, but the fact that members were referred to by name isn't the issue. You should have handled the situation by immediately calling Jill to order when she asked the question. These sorts of squabbles are not appropriate for a meeting. Additionally, if this is what "Complaints" usually looks like, it should be discontinued. So then Dick's complaints (in the same meeting) about Susan (another member who wasn't there) would have been out of order, as well, yes? Then what is "COMPLAINTS" used for? (Not that we have had someone always come up under COMPLAINTS)... My biggest worry is Jane... she plays dirty, and is a bit manipulative... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hieu H. Huynh Posted July 19, 2015 at 06:58 PM Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 at 06:58 PM Then what is "COMPLAINTS" used for? I think that's a good question. At the least, I think it shouldn't be about other members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Guest Posted July 19, 2015 at 09:00 PM Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 at 09:00 PM I think that's a good question. At the least, I think it shouldn't be about other members. I agree. Perhaps something along the lines of "the beer is too warm". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan_P2950 Posted July 19, 2015 at 09:38 PM Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 at 09:38 PM Ok.... if members are not to "complain" about other members.... How do I address the issue(s) of members? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Guest Posted July 19, 2015 at 09:46 PM Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 at 09:46 PM Ok.... if members are not to "complain" about other members.... How do I address the issue(s) of members? You can speak with them outside of the context of a meeting. Meetings are for conducting business, not airing grievances (unless the grievance involves the violation of a rule, in which case the member should raise a point of order). If the "complaint" is something that might warrant some sort of disciplinary action, read Chapter XX carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted July 19, 2015 at 09:47 PM Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 at 09:47 PM So then Dick's complaints (in the same meeting) about Susan (another member who wasn't there) would have been out of order, as well, yes?Yes.Then what is "COMPLAINTS" used for? (Not that we have had someone always come up under COMPLAINTS)...There is no heading called "Complaints" in the standard order of business. Do your rules define it?Ok.... if members are not to "complain" about other members.... How do I address the issue(s) of members?What sort of issues? Issues like the above (whining about how other members voted or what motions they made) don't belong in a meeting at all. Members can gripe outside of meetings if they want to.Legitimate complaints are probably best handled by making a motion to address the issue (perhaps in New Business). If there is a legitimate issue with a member, see Ch. XX of RONR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nan_P2950 Posted July 19, 2015 at 10:15 PM Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 at 10:15 PM There is no heading called "Complaints" in the standard order of business. Do your rules define it? None, that I can see... Looks like in the next meeting, I will asked the assembly to strike out "COMPLAINTS" from the agenda.... So, then, from here on out, any complaint(s) about a member, they will have to come through me, and I'll have to have a talk with him/her. I'll be reading Ch. XX... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Guest Posted July 19, 2015 at 11:19 PM Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 at 11:19 PM Looks like in the next meeting, I will asked the assembly to strike out "COMPLAINTS" from the agenda....See FAQ #14 for agendas. So, then, from here on out, any complaint(s) about a member, they will have to come through me, and I'll have to have a talk with him/her.Well, they won't have to go through you but, as president, you might be in the best position to resolve the issue without going to trial. In any case, you don't have any "veto" power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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