Informal Discussion time limit

[RobertJ]

Well, in my opinion, the rules in RONR are not clear.  It comes down to what does this mean:

"Informal discussion of a motion is permitted while no motion is pending."  RONR, 11th ed., p. 488, ll. 7-8

 

Informal discussion while no motion is pending is permitted already when not using this rule subject to the rules I've cited on RONR pages 33-35 and 394-395.

 

So it is a matter interpretation whether or not the rule stated on p. 488 ll. 7-8 means that the other rules go out the window.

 

Actually our HOA Board has not formally adopted via resolution any of the small Board rules cited on RONR pages 497-498. 

[Josh Martin]

I don't know that I agree that the rules I cited with regard to informal discussion don't apply if the small board rules are used.  The small board rules state that "informal discussion of a subject is permitted while no motion is pending".  It doesn't explicitly state that the other rules I cited are negated.  That could be one interpretation of "informal discussion of a subject is permitted while no motion is pending" while another interpretation could be that "informal discussion of a subject is permitted while no motion is pending" but still restricted by the other rules I cited.

 

The following reference even discusses informal discussion in small assemblies:

 

"Occasionally, however - in small assemblies when a subject is not strongly contested - brief informal consultation or discussion of a subject may assist a member in framing a proper motion.  If the chair permits such discussion, he should not allow it to continue more than a few moments or longer than is reasonably necessary to arrive at a motion embodying the member's ideas." RONR, 11th ed., p. 395, ll. 34-35, p. 396, ll. 1-5.

 

What is said on pg. 395 applies to small assemblies which are not using the small board rules. An assembly of twenty, for instance, may still be considered "small" - but not small enough for the small board rules. Additionally, even some assemblies which are small enough to use the small board rules may not do so.

 

Well, in my opinion, the rules in RONR are not clear.  It comes down to what does this mean:

"Informal discussion of a motion is permitted while no motion is pending."  RONR, 11th ed., p. 488, ll. 7-8

 

Informal discussion while no motion is pending is permitted already when not using this rule subject to the rules I've cited on RONR pages 33-35 and 394-395.

 

So it is a matter interpretation whether or not the rule stated on p. 488 ll. 7-8 means that the other rules go out the window.

 

If all of the rules elsewhere in the text on this subject were still fully applicable, the rule on pg. 488 wouldn't mean much of anything. The rules on that page show the differences between assemblies using the small board rules and assemblies which are not. In a small board, informal discussion is permitted. In a larger assembly, it is not, unless so ordered beyond the assembly (beyond perhaps a very brief discussion which can and should be cut off  by the chair before it goes too far).

 

So no, I do not believe the chair has the authority to cut off discussion under the small board rules. I wish to reiterate, however, that simply because informal discussion is permitted under the small board rules does not mean any member has a right to speak in informal discussion, as opposed to a member's right to speak in debate. Therefore, while the chair lacks the authority to end such discussion himself, the assembly may end such discussion. Unlike ending debate, it may do this with just a majority vote, and may do so even while a member is currently speaking (if necessary).

 

Actually our HOA Board has not formally adopted via resolution any of the small Board rules cited on RONR pages 497-498. 

 

A small board does not need to formally adopt a resolution on the subject. If the board has customarily used the small board rules (which seems to be the case), that is sufficient. Nonetheless, if the board wishes to adopt a motion that it shall no longer use the small board rules (or perhaps just this one in particular), it is certainly free to do so.

[RobertJ]

Per RONR, 11th ed., p, 16, ll. 12-20, the small Board rules are adopted by resolution:

"A society with a small assembly - such as one having a dozen or few members - may wish to adopt a rule that its meetings will be governed by some or all of the somewhat less formal procedures applicable to small Boards (see pp. 487-488).  Special rules of order are usually adopted in the form of resolutions... "

 

Our Board has not customarily used all of the small Board rules.

[Edgar Guest]

"A society with a small assembly - such as one having a dozen or few members . . . "

 

This refers to an organization whose entire membership (i.e. "the general assembly") consists of about a dozen members.

 

The term "assembly", without further qualification, often leads to confusion. 

[Josh Martin]

Per RONR, 11th ed., p, 16, ll. 12-20, the small Board rules are adopted by resolution:

"A society with a small assembly - such as one having a dozen or few members - may wish to adopt a rule that its meetings will be governed by some or all of the somewhat less formal procedures applicable to small Boards (see pp. 487-488).  Special rules of order are usually adopted in the form of resolutions... "

 

They are adopted by resolution if they are to be used by the membership of a society (as opposed to a board).

 

Our Board has not customarily used all of the small Board rules.

 

It's apparently customarily used this one. You've noted a couple of times that in your board meetings, there is usually informal discussion on a subject, and then someone makes a motion.

[RobertJ]

Informal discussion in our Board meetings has varied over the years with different Board members and different people chairing the meetings. I still am of the opinion that the meaning of "Informal discussion of a subject is permitted while no motion is pending" is subject to be interpreted differently with regard to the authority of the Chair to limit it as is done in larger assemblies. 

 

Thank you for clarifying that the small Board rules do not need a resolution in order to be applicable to small Boards.