Guest guest Posted January 26, 2016 at 04:27 AM Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 at 04:27 AM What is a "critical motion" as used on page 418 (line 29) in Robert's Rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Goldsworthy Posted January 26, 2016 at 05:01 AM Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 at 05:01 AM << excerpt page 418 >> Quote The tellers' report is entered in full in the minutes, becoming a part of the official records of the organization. Under no circumstances should this be omitted in an election or in a vote on a critical motion out of a mistaken deference to the feelings of unsuccessful candidates or members of the losing side. I think an election is critical. I think a bylaws amendment is critical. I think big asset transactions (e.g., buying/selling real estate) are critical. If you have a tellers committee tabulating ballots, then that very mode of decision-making suggests to me that the decision, whatever is worth balloting on, must critical. (Why else would you bypass up a voice vote or a standing vote?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted January 26, 2016 at 05:41 AM Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 at 05:41 AM 1 hour ago, Guest guest said: What is a "critical motion" as used on page 418 (line 29) in Robert's Rules? The sentence referred to refers to the requirement that the full tellers' report be read and included in the minutes: Quote Under no circumstances should this be omitted in an election or in a vote on a critical motion out of a mistaken deference to the feelings of unsuccessful candidates or members of the losing side From that context, I think a critical motion means hotly contested or controversial motion in which personal feelings have become enmeshed. That is, any situation where one might, out of a mistaken deference to the losing side, be tempted to to omit the vote count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted January 26, 2016 at 07:19 AM Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 at 07:19 AM I'd say that any motion is "critical" to someone, particularly the original mover. "Critical" is a judgment call (judged by who?) and I submit that the modifying word "critical" should be purged from the next RONR edition, just as the words "all important", describing motions which merited the inclusion of the name of the mover in the minutes, vanished in going from the 10th to the 11th Ed . In the 11th the minutes include the name of the mover of all main motions; in the 10th only "important" motions were so honored. But who was to say that a motion was or wasn't "important"? Not the secretary, that's for sure - p. 468, lines18-21. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Ralph Posted January 28, 2016 at 01:10 PM Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 at 01:10 PM One might suppose that a motion on which it has been resolved that the vote be taken by ballot is fairly critical. (My opinion only.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted January 28, 2016 at 01:16 PM Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 at 01:16 PM Oh, I've been to meetings where the ballot vote was on utterly trivial matters. (At least I thought they were trivial.) And conversely, wrt voice votes. Lets remove "critical" from RONR/12, although I don't think the issue is particularly, well, critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted January 28, 2016 at 02:49 PM Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 at 02:49 PM You're right, none of this is "critical" -- it is, in fact, much ado about nothing. RONR (11th ed.), on page 418, lines 26-27, makes it very clear that the tellers' report is to be entered in full in the minutes. The following sentence on lines 28-31 simply mentions elections and votes on critical motions as being two examples of instances in which "a mistaken deference to the feelings of unsuccessful candidates or members of the losing side" may prompt a desire to leave a tellers report out of the minutes, and says that under no circumstances should this be allowed to happen. To read any of what is said on page 418 as implying that only tellers' reports in elections and on critical motions need be entered in the minutes requires making a serious effort to find something to fuss about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted January 28, 2016 at 03:06 PM Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 at 03:06 PM 15 minutes ago, Daniel H. Honemann said: To read any of what is said on page 418 as implying that only tellers' reports in elections and on critical motions need be entered in the minutes requires making a serious effort to find something to fuss about. What else is there to do when (still) snowed in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted January 28, 2016 at 03:07 PM Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 at 03:07 PM 1 minute ago, jstackpo said: What else is there to do when (still) snowed in? Go out and shovel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted January 28, 2016 at 03:23 PM Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 at 03:23 PM 16 minutes ago, Daniel H. Honemann said: Go out and shovel. Oh, shoveling something is done daily around these parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann Rempel Posted January 28, 2016 at 10:02 PM Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 at 10:02 PM 6 hours ago, George Mervosh said: Oh, shoveling something is done daily around these parts. And it can lead to critical consequences. Let it melt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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