amendments to bylaws amendments

[Guest Loreen]

If bylaws amendments presented at the annual meeting come from the bylaws committee but are amended by delegates, is the final presentation of bylaws for the vote still from committee (not needing a second) as amended?

[Richard Brown]

It seems you have some intermediate step or meeting between the time the bylaws committee presents its report and the meeting at which the bylaw amendments are actually voted on.  It seems as if some body (some group.... the board, the membership, a committee??) gets first shot at the proposed bylaw amendments before they are voted on at the annual meeting.  What is that intermediate step/meeting?

Without knowing more, though, it seems to me this is much like any other motion that has been amended:  The minutes reflect the name of the person who originally made the motion and the wording of the motion as it existed after any amendments.  In your case, the bylaw amendment still originated with the bylaws committee, but got amended at some intermediate step that we don't know about.

If it is amended AT the annual meeting, then it is no different from any other motion that gets amended after it is made.  The amendment (to the bylaw amendment) may need a second, but once amended, the final  version does not need a new second any more than any other motion would.  It is simply voted on in its amended form.

Why are you asking?  Is this a question of how to word it in the minutes?

[Joshua Katz]

Something seems off in the sequence here.  The committee chair would move the bylaw amendment on behalf of committee (no second needed), then there would be motions to amend it (hopefully within the scope of notice, if notice is required).  If those are adopted, the body can then move to a vote on the amendment to the bylaws, as amended - but it's already been moved, so the question of a second doesn't arise.

Speaking more generally, it's hard for me to imagine a situation where the need to get a second is material.  If a second is needed, but the chair doesn't wait for one before stating the question, then the question of a second is immaterial once debate begins.  If a body mistakenly thinks a second is needed, and none is forthcoming, the motion has been killed wrongly- but it strikes me as unlikely that it would have carried if no one even wanted to discuss it other than the maker.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Godelfan said:

Something seems off in the sequence here.  The committee chair would move the bylaw amendment on behalf of committee (no second needed), then there would be motions to amend it (hopefully within the scope of notice, if notice is required).  If those are adopted, the body can then move to a vote on the amendment to the bylaws, as amended - but it's already been moved, so the question of a second doesn't arise.

Speaking more generally, it's hard for me to imagine a situation where the need to get a second is material.  If a second is needed, but the chair doesn't wait for one before stating the question, then the question of a second is immaterial once debate begins.  If a body mistakenly thinks a second is needed, and none is forthcoming, the motion has been killed wrongly- but it strikes me as unlikely that it would have carried if no one even wanted to discuss it other than the maker.

The amendments were published ahead of time as required by the bylaws but some wording was left out so the executive committee decided an amendment need to be made at the annual meeting to make the statements as intended. As bylaws chair I want to be sure we follow correct procedure.

[Joshua Katz]

Well, if the EC decided an amendment needed to be made at the annual meeting, that strikes me as being somewhat similar to my making that decision:  it's not their call.  The bylaws committee, which you chair, has a report - which apparently must be published ahead of the meeting where the recommendations are to be considered.  Unless your rules let the EC amend that report, they can make suggestions (as I can), but your report remains your report.  At the meeting where the recommendations are to be considered, a member of the EC, or anyone else, may move to amend your proposal - if the amendment they suggest is within the scope of notice - when the recommendation is pending, but then it's already pending.  If you are able to do so, you could say "hmm, that's a good idea" and include their recommendation in your report, depending on the exact rules surrounding the publication of amendments ahead of the meeting.  Your committee can also choose not to - the EC has no special power in this regard, unless your rules give them power.  In general, the membership controls the bylaws, not a board or an EC.  The body, at the meeting, can consider recommendations from a committee to amend the bylaws, and the EC, which is not present as such at the annual meeting, has nothing to say about it - its members, of course, might have much to say, if they are also members of the body.  

Back to your immediate question - if you change your report, you're still making the motion on behalf of committee.  If the motions are amended from the floor at the annual meeting, they were already pending and so there's no motion left for you to make.  There's no impact, in either case, on the need for a second.

[jstackpo]

OK, well, a representative from the Exec Comm.  should prepare an amendment to the ORIGINAL published bylaw amendments which makes the necessary corrections of supplies the "left out" wording.  He/she would present the amendment to the bylaws amendment at the appropriate place during your meeting, just as any other member is free to do.

Then the assembly can consider that, as well as the remaining original bylaw amendments, and work its will.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 3/23/2016 at 2:38 PM, Guest Loreen said:

If bylaws amendments presented at the annual meeting come from the bylaws committee but are amended by delegates, is the final presentation of bylaws for the vote still from committee (not needing a second) as amended?

If the draft bylaws from the committee are being amended by the delegates, then the time for a second has long passed, and was not necessary in the first place, as it came from committee. 

It does not have to be moved again, let alone seconded again, because it is already pending.