Guest Sherry Posted November 22, 2016 at 05:13 PM Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 at 05:13 PM When someone was not at a meeting or any part of a discussion up for vote, is it appropriate to "abstain", or should one avoid participating at all ? I tried to avoid voting on minutes of a meeting I did not attend, and I thought that abstaining was applied when one was part of a discussion but chooses not to vote one way or the other, based on having knowledge of the topic. When one is completely missing in action, I thought it was best not to participate in the vote at all, and I see abstaining as participating in the vote. ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hieu H. Huynh Posted November 22, 2016 at 05:19 PM Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 at 05:19 PM It's up to the member to decide to abstain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherry Posted November 22, 2016 at 05:27 PM Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 at 05:27 PM So doing NOTHING is also appropriate ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hieu H. Huynh Posted November 22, 2016 at 05:28 PM Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 at 05:28 PM In RONR, a member has the right to abstain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted November 22, 2016 at 05:39 PM Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 at 05:39 PM 25 minutes ago, Guest Sherry said: When someone was not at a meeting or any part of a discussion up for vote, is it appropriate to "abstain", or should one avoid participating at all ? I tried to avoid voting on minutes of a meeting I did not attend, and I thought that abstaining was applied when one was part of a discussion but chooses not to vote one way or the other, based on having knowledge of the topic. When one is completely missing in action, I thought it was best not to participate in the vote at all, and I see abstaining as participating in the vote. ???? That's completely up to the member, but no rule requires a member to abstain or otherwise not vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Coffee Posted November 22, 2016 at 06:08 PM Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 at 06:08 PM Under Robert's, when a person abstains from a vote, they do not announce that they abstain, they do nothing. I believe that your distinction between "abstaining" and "not participating" is a false dichotomy. Not partipating (in the vote) is what abstaining is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Britton Posted November 23, 2016 at 12:54 AM Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 at 12:54 AM 6 hours ago, Todd Crowder said: Under Robert's, when a person abstains from a vote, they do not announce that they abstain, they do nothing. Correct, but, if it's important the minutes note the member's abstention, perhaps for obvious reason, he/she is permitted to request that his/her abstention be entered on the minutes - thus it may be recorded if requested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Ed Posted November 23, 2016 at 05:50 AM Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 at 05:50 AM There are a couple problems with the abstaining aspect: 1) Some issues require previous notice, such as By-law amendments. Just because a member missed the previous meeting, it would be foolish to say that the member has to abstain. Nothing was discussed, just that notice was given. 2) The member has the right to have an opinion, and to voice that opinion - both through debate and through a vote (if the member chooses.) The member may actually have important information to share about the issue which may end up swaying how other members vote. A motion could be passed or defeated if the member voted and/or entered into debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Goldsworthy Posted November 23, 2016 at 12:38 PM Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 at 12:38 PM 19 hours ago, Guest Sherry said: S1.) When someone was not at a meeting or any part of a discussion up for vote, is it appropriate to "abstain", or should one avoid participating at all? S2.) I tried to avoid voting on minutes of a meeting I did not attend, and I thought that abstaining was applied when one was part of a discussion but chooses not to vote one way or the other, based on having knowledge of the topic. S3.) When one is completely missing in action, I thought it was best not to participate in the vote at all, and I see abstaining as participating in the vote. Your distinction is garbled. Q. Are you equating (a.) abstaining; with (b.) not-debating? *** Q. Are you equating (a.) debating; with (b.) not-abstaining? That is a logically fallacious choice. The two acts are not even related. • You can debate, debate, debate, and then choose to abstain. • You could abstain, despite debating vigorously, for every minute of your two (or more?) opportunities. The two acts (viz., to debate; and to abstain) are not mutually exclusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted November 25, 2016 at 03:01 AM Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 at 03:01 AM On 11/22/2016 at 0:27 PM, Sherry said: So doing NOTHING is also appropriate ?? Doing nothing is, by definition, abstaining from everything. But there is no rule in RONR that requires a member to abstain from voting on a motion when he was not present during debate, nor is there a rule that prevents a member from offering or voting on corrections to the minutes of a meeting at which he was not present. There is not even any strong suggestion that he should refrain from doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary c Tesser Posted November 25, 2016 at 02:12 PM Report Share Posted November 25, 2016 at 02:12 PM On 11/23/2016 at 0:50 AM, Rev Ed said: There are a couple problems with the abstaining aspect: 1) Some issues require previous notice, such as By-law amendments. Just because a member missed the previous meeting, it would be foolish to say that the member has to abstain. Nothing was discussed, just that notice was given. 2) The member has the right to have an opinion, and to voice that opinion - both through debate and through a vote (if the member chooses.) The member may actually have important information to share about the issue which may end up swaying how other members vote. A motion could be passed or defeated if the member voted and/or entered into debate. These are actually useful points, I think, after mulling about them for a while and only slowly appreciating their subtleties. Nicely done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Ed Posted November 29, 2016 at 03:35 AM Report Share Posted November 29, 2016 at 03:35 AM On 11/25/2016 at 9:12 AM, Gary c Tesser said: These are actually useful points, I think, after mulling about them for a while and only slowly appreciating their subtleties. Nicely done. Thanks. It nice to get something right once and awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmuel Gerber Posted November 30, 2016 at 03:25 PM Report Share Posted November 30, 2016 at 03:25 PM On 11/28/2016 at 10:35 PM, Rev Ed said: Thanks. It nice to get something right once and awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted December 1, 2016 at 05:19 AM Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 at 05:19 AM On 11/28/2016 at 10:35 PM, Rev Ed said: Thanks. It nice to get something right once and awhile. Er, ironically enough, that's "once in a while" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted December 1, 2016 at 07:57 AM Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 at 07:57 AM Maybe "once and awhile" is Canadian, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted December 1, 2016 at 01:57 PM Report Share Posted December 1, 2016 at 01:57 PM Or maybe he's using voice to text on a smartphone that isn't so smart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nancy N. Posted December 3, 2016 at 08:03 PM Report Share Posted December 3, 2016 at 08:03 PM Ignore them sniping Yankees, Edness Wonderful Pie, they ain't prefect neither. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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