Guest Phil Posted July 11, 2017 at 03:44 PM Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 at 03:44 PM Elections were held by ballot. The chairman said that the council nor candidates would be told the results. The candidates want to know the results. Bylaws are silent on this. Where in Roberts rules does it allow the candidates to demand these results? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Katz Posted July 11, 2017 at 04:20 PM Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 at 04:20 PM 34 minutes ago, Guest Phil said: Elections were held by ballot. The chairman said that the council nor candidates would be told the results. The candidates want to know the results. Bylaws are silent on this. Where in Roberts rules does it allow the candidates to demand these results? I don't understand. What happened next? The ballots were turned in and... At some point, you're going to have to have people assume office. How will they know they were elected? In any case, I am without book, but see the description of the teller's report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted July 11, 2017 at 04:22 PM Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 at 04:22 PM Not a demand exactly, but page 417ff. make it clear that, in the teller's report, numerical results should show vote counts. You could raise a point of order that the election was not being properly reported. Imagine the outcry if the Trump / Clinton vote count was kept secret last November. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Katz Posted July 11, 2017 at 05:08 PM Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 at 05:08 PM Or made known only to the Russian government... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Who's Coming to Dinner Posted July 11, 2017 at 07:01 PM Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 at 07:01 PM I assume you mean that the results were announced but the tallies are being withheld. Perhaps your chairman thinks it will hurt the candidates' feelings to learn the numbers. Or perhaps he is a scoundrel who is trying to hide something. Either way, the teller's report with the complete vote count should be entered in full into the minutes. Any member of the organization has the right to inspect the minutes at a reasonable time and place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted July 11, 2017 at 08:35 PM Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 at 08:35 PM Not only should the complete vote count be entered in the minutes, it should be read aloud to the assembly at the time the election results are announced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstackpo Posted July 11, 2017 at 10:42 PM Report Share Posted July 11, 2017 at 10:42 PM Here's some more reasons... Indeed it is the proper thing to do, to read out the numerical vote results for the members to hear -- see p. 417, line 18 ff. - and to include them in the minutes Consider some possibilities: 1) The winner got nearly all the votes and the loser has had a long history of fruitlessly running for office. Reading the vote count might send him a message, that it is time to quit making a fool of himself. 2) The vote is "reasonably" close. This way the loser will be encouraged to try again, as it seems, by the vote, that he has a good deal of potential, and many friends, but just went up against a better person this time. This may help to keep a good candidate in the game. 3) The vote is "extremely" close - one or two votes different. The assembly may very well want to order a recount (RONR p. 419, line 1, see index also) just to be sure of the result. This way there are no (or fewer) hard feelings. 4) The president, when declaring who won, makes a simple mistake and names the wrong person, or he does not understand the vote required to adopt the motion (majority, 2/3, &c.) and states the "wrong" outcome. 5) The tellers make an error. Reading the results out loud may not help to catch this but studying the printed documentation in the minutes at leisure probably would. The documentation would also serve as evidence if there were serious questions about the outcome. Without the teller having read the numbers, how will anybody (except the teller, if he is paying attention) know to correct this? 6) The winner of the election (or partisans of the winning side of a critical issue) could weigh the numerical results in terms of whether they have a "mandate" to proceed at full bore, or whether there might be some fence mending to look after first. If the vote results were not made immediately available to the membership, none of the above good things could happen. And this listing doesn't even mention the myriad possibilities for knavery or outright fraud that are available when vote counts are kept secret. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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