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mjhmjh

Does the power to appoint include the power to dismiss by default?

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Our constitution tasks the president with appointing a number of  "general staff" positions, and the Executive Board with appointing a number of "independent staff" positions. The constitution does not specify the term for such positions, nor a procedure for removing staff. Can the president unilaterally remove general staff, and the executive board independent staff? I know RONR says that a president with the authority to appoint committee members may also remove them, but I'm not sure if that applies to other things as well.

Here is a link to our constitution. Articles 7-9 are particularly relevant: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HasJflfN5CKSqdEz0n3ihdK3cgq6-3ooyuBq0pFllRs/edit?usp=sharing

Edit: the staff are not paid, there are no contracts, and the organization is not incorporated

Edited by mjhmjh

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Since this involves employment - paid "staff", I presume - I would tread lightly.  There may be contracts involved.  Check with a lawyer.

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Since this involves employment - paid "staff", I presume - I would tread lightly.  There may be contracts involved.  Check with a lawyer.

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8 minutes ago, jstackpo said:

Since this involves employment - paid "staff", I presume - I would tread lightly.  There may be contracts involved.  Check with a lawyer.

"Staff" is just a term we use. They aren't paid, there are no contracts, and the organization is not incorporated :).

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Usual disclaimer:   Associations are the only folks who can properly interpret their own bylaws (page 588).

Sure looks like to me like the President and ExecBoard would be free to remove staff members from their respective groupings.

Otherwise you might have to wait a very long time to put new folks in place.

You might want to amend your bylaws and put the "or until..." phrase in your bylaws (page 574) or make an explicit statement as to removal authority.

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Guest Who's Coming to Dinner

The way you remove an appointed person is to appoint someone new.

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6 minutes ago, Guest Who's Coming to Dinner said:

The way you remove an appointed person is to appoint someone new.

Well, that's one way, but it's not the only way.  Page 177 makes plain that the appointing authority has the power to "remove or replace" appointees: 

"The power to appoint a committee includes the power to fill any vacancy that may arise in it. The resignation of a member of a committee should be addressed to the appointing power, and it is the responsibility of that power to fill the resulting vacancy (see also pp. 467–68). Unless the bylaws or other governing rules provide otherwise (see pp. 497, 653), the appointing authority has the power to remove or replace members of the committee: If a single person, such as the president, has the power of appointment, he has the power to remove or replace a member so appointed; but if the assembly has the power of selection, removal or replacement can take place only under rules applicable to the motions to Rescind or Amend Something Previously Adopted (see p. 497). Committee members are presumed to serve until their successors are appointed. "

 

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1 hour ago, Richard Brown said:

Well, that's one way, but it's not the only way.  Page 177 makes plain that the appointing authority has the power to "remove or replace" appointees: 

"The power to appoint a committee includes the power to fill any vacancy that may arise in it. The resignation of a member of a committee should be addressed to the appointing power, and it is the responsibility of that power to fill the resulting vacancy (see also pp. 467–68). Unless the bylaws or other governing rules provide otherwise (see pp. 497, 653), the appointing authority has the power to remove or replace members of the committee: If a single person, such as the president, has the power of appointment, he has the power to remove or replace a member so appointed; but if the assembly has the power of selection, removal or replacement can take place only under rules applicable to the motions to Rescind or Amend Something Previously Adopted (see p. 497). Committee members are presumed to serve until their successors are appointed. "

 

I'm familiar with that passage, but my concern is that it specifically refers to committee appointments.

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13 minutes ago, mjhmjh said:

I'm familiar with that passage, but my concern is that it specifically refers to committee appointments.

In my view, the passage Mr. Brown cites also applies to other non-officer positions. Indeed, it seems to me these positions may be viewed as committees of one.

In any event, the general principle for any position is that the power to appoint carries with it the power to remove.

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7 hours ago, Josh Martin said:

In my view, the passage Mr. Brown cites also applies to other non-officer positions. Indeed, it seems to me these positions may be viewed as committees of one.

In any event, the general principle for any position is that the power to appoint carries with it the power to remove.

I agree,  provided that the staff was not appointed by a main motion.  The power to remove would exist, but by means of a motion to rescind.

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On 3/9/2018 at 11:54 PM, J. J. said:

I agree,  provided that the staff was not appointed by a main motion.  The power to remove would exist, but by means of a motion to rescind.

You seem to be implying that the Executive Board could appoint general staff through the passage of a motion (the organization only meets twice a year and the EB has full authority over the organization’s affairs in between those two meetings). How is this the case if the constitution explicitly grants the president the power to appoint general staff, and the EB the power to appoint independent staff?

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21 minutes ago, mjhmjh said:

You seem to be implying that the Executive Board could appoint general staff through the passage of a motion (the organization only meets twice a year and the EB has full authority over the organization’s affairs in between those two meetings). How is this the case if the constitution explicitly grants the president the power to appoint general staff, and the EB the power to appoint independent staff?

I think all J.J. is saying is that if an appointment is made by means of a main motion, it would take a motion to rescind or amend something previously adopted in order to remove the appointee.  If you don't appoint anyone by means of a motion, then obviously that would not be applicable.   It would not be applicable, for example, to appointments made by the president.   However, you say the executive board has the power to appoint independent staff (whatever that is).  The only way a board (or an assembly or a committee) can make an appointment (or do anything) is by means of a motion.  So, it looks to me like your independent staff appointments that are made by the board could be removed only by the same method... an adopted motion.  The president cannot remove persons appointed by the executive board unless your bylaws give him that authority. 

The principle is really very simple.  The power to appoint includes the power to remove.  Absent a contrary bylaw provision, the president can remove people who he appoints and the executive board can remove people it appoints.

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6 hours ago, Richard Brown said:

I think all J.J. is saying is that if an appointment is made by means of a main motion, it would take a motion to rescind or amend something previously adopted in order to remove the appointee.

Yes, that was my point. 

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