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Charles Lehmann

Motion after speaking in debate

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It is the long-standing tradition in the conventions of an organization of which I am a member to not allow someone who speaking to a main motion a make a motion at the end of a speech during debate (such as a motion to amend or previous question).

Our president asked me if I could find the rule on that, and I couldn't. My guess was that when you are recognized you can debate or make a motion but not both. I couldn't find anything that gave a clear answer.

So, is our rule something that's in Robert's Rules or is it just a long standing custom of our organization?

Edited by Charles Lehmann

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Guest Who's Coming to Dinner

RONR explicitly permits speaking in debate and then making a secondary motion. (11th ed., p.386, ll. 25–29)

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20 minutes ago, Charles Lehmann said:

It is the long-standing tradition in the conventions of an organization of which I am a member to not allow someone who speaking to a main motion a make a motion at the end of a speech during debate (such as a motion to amend or previous question).

Our president asked me if I could find the rule on that, and I couldn't. My guess was that when you are recognized you can debate or make a motion but not both. 

 

6 minutes ago, Guest Who's Coming to Dinner said:

RONR explicitly permits speaking in debate and then making a secondary motion. (11th ed., p.386, ll. 25–29)

In other words, guess again.  🙂

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8 minutes ago, Charles Lehmann said:

My guess is that we passed it 500 years ago as a standing rule. Time to do some more research.

Well, this would actually need to be a special rule of order, not a standing rule. (Unless you mean a convention standing rule, but those only apply for the duration of the current convention, so any such rules adopted 500 years ago have long since expired.)

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18 minutes ago, Josh Martin said:

Well, this would actually need to be a special rule of order, not a standing rule. (Unless you mean a convention standing rule, but those only apply for the duration of the current convention, so any such rules adopted 500 years ago have long since expired.)

Well, we just did it wrong this last time. Fortunately, it only came up once. I've advised the president of this so we can fix it next time.

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2 hours ago, Charles Lehmann said:

It is the long-standing tradition in the conventions of an organization of which I am a member to not allow someone who speaking to a main motion a make a motion at the end of a speech during debate (such as a motion to amend or previous question).

Our president asked me if I could find the rule on that, and I couldn't. My guess was that when you are recognized you can debate or make a motion but not both. I couldn't find anything that gave a clear answer.

So, is our rule something that's in Robert's Rules or is it just a long standing custom of our organization?

 

1 hour ago, Josh Martin said:

Well, this would actually need to be a special rule of order, not a standing rule. (Unless you mean a convention standing rule, but those only apply for the duration of the current convention, so any such rules adopted 500 years ago have long since expired.)

 

45 minutes ago, Charles Lehmann said:

Well, we just did it wrong this last time. Fortunately, it only came up once. I've advised the president of this so we can fix it next time.

It appears to me that Mr. Lehmann is indeed talking about a convention standing rule.  His first post refers to the conventions of his organization.  If that is the case, a rule prohibiting the making of a motion by a member at the conclusion of a speech in debate can easily be adopted at the start of the convention as a "convention standing rule", even though it is in the nature of a rule of order.  It's adoption would require a two thirds vote, but would not require previous notice, although it is customary to distribute the proposed standing rules of the convention to the delegates prior to the actual start of the convention.

As Mr. Martin pointed out, a convention standing rule is valid only for the duration of that conventioin and it would be necessary to adopt the same rule at each convention if it is desired to continue the practice.  Mr. Lehmann might read the provisions in RONR on the adoption of convention standing rules on pages 618-624.

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