Which edition of Robert's?

[Scott Fischer]

This is the first of at least three items I would appreciate some help with.

An organization has the following language in the by-laws:

Section xxx - "Unless otherwise provided either by the laws, practices, or by vote adopted by this organization, Robert's Rules of Order shall be the guide and authority for the method of conducting the affairs of this organization at its meetings."

Section xxx - "In the absence of a standing rule to apply to the question before the organization, recourse shall refer to Robert's Manual."

The above quotes are the only reference to a parliamentary authority in the by-laws. I think this language is unfortunate in that I would say it leaves the question of which edition it is using as its parliamentary authority open to interpretation. The by-laws were last revised in 2015.

What edition would you say is being prescribed? If you agree it is unclear, how would you recommend the situation be remedied?  I would say the best course of action would be to amend the by-laws to the language in RONR (11th ed.), p. 580. If clarification is needed before the by-laws are amended would it be acceptable to introduce a resolution stating that the above quoted sections are interpreted to mean RONR 11th ed.?

Edited December 12, 2018 at 03:07 AM by Scott Fischer

[Gary Novosielski]

The  11th edition says:

Quote

 

This Eleventh Edition supersedes all previous editions and is intended automatically to become the parliamentary authority in organizations whose bylaws prescribe “Robert’s Rules of Order,” “Robert’s Rules of Order Revised,” “Robert’s Rules of Order Newly Revised,” or “the current edition of” any of these titles, or the like, without specifying a particular edition. If the bylaws specifically identify one of the ten previous editions of the work as parliamentary authority, the bylaws should be amended to prescribe “the current edition of ‘Robert’s Rules of Order Newly Revised’” (see p. 588).

 

So, I don't see that as your major problem with that language.  The problem I see is the phrase "or by vote adopted by this organization".

That could be interpreted to mean that any part of RONR could be suspended by a simple majority vote, which is an undesirable provision, in my view.  RONR does allow a society to overrule anything in RONR, but by provisions in the bylaws, or by the adoption of a Special Rule of Order, not by some ordinary motion.  In fact the word "practices" might be interpreted to mean that simply because the society is in the habit of doing things wrong, this establishes a practice that supersedes the rules in RONR.

The preferred language for inclusion in the bylaws, usually in an article of its own, is:

 

Article #
Parliamentary Authority

“The rules contained in the current edition of Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised shall govern the Society in all cases to which they are applicable and in which they are not inconsistent with these bylaws and any special rules of order the Society may adopt.”

Of course, another term than “Society” may be substituted that more appropriately describes the particular organization. Pay particular attention to the footnote on page 580 of RONR  (11th ed.) if your organization is incorporated.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2018 at 03:34 AM by Gary Novosielski

[Josh Martin]

15 hours ago, Scott Fischer said:

This is the first of at least three items I would appreciate some help with.

An organization has the following language in the by-laws:

Section xxx - "Unless otherwise provided either by the laws, practices, or by vote adopted by this organization, Robert's Rules of Order shall be the guide and authority for the method of conducting the affairs of this organization at its meetings."

Section xxx - "In the absence of a standing rule to apply to the question before the organization, recourse shall refer to Robert's Manual."

The above quotes are the only reference to a parliamentary authority in the by-laws. I think this language is unfortunate in that I would say it leaves the question of which edition it is using as its parliamentary authority open to interpretation. The by-laws were last revised in 2015.

What edition would you say is being prescribed? If you agree it is unclear, how would you recommend the situation be remedied?  I would say the best course of action would be to amend the by-laws to the language in RONR (11th ed.), p. 580. If clarification is needed before the by-laws are amended would it be acceptable to introduce a resolution stating that the above quoted sections are interpreted to mean RONR 11th ed.?

I think it would be desirable to amend the bylaws to use the language on RONR, 11th ed., pg. 580, but in the interim, my view is that the 11th edition is the correct edition to use. In the very first pages of the 11th edition, you will find the following language:

”This Eleventh Edition supersedes all previous editions and is intended automatically to become the parliamentary authority in organizations whose bylaws prescribe "Robert's Rules of Order," "Robert's Rules of Order Revised," "Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised," or "the current edition of" any of these titles, or the like, without specifying a particular edition. If the bylaws specifically identify one of the ten previous editions of the work as parliamentary authority, the bylaws should be amended to prescribe "the current edition of ‘Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised'" (see p. 588).”

Not that I think it matters, but since you note that the bylaws were last revised in 2015, I would add that the 11th edition was published in 2011, and the 10th edition was published in 2010 and contains virtually identical language.

I do not think it is necessary or desirable to introduce a resolution stating that the above sections should be interpreted to mean the 11th edition. Either this is already what the sections mean (which is my interpretation), in which event the resolution is redundant, or it is not what these sections mean, in which event the resolution would conflict with the bylaws. In the highly unlikely event that a dispute arises in which a difference between the 11th edition and some other edition would have bearing on a Point of Order or Appeal, then perhaps the issue could be addressed at that time, but I expect that the bylaws will be amended before such a problem arises.

Edited December 12, 2018 at 06:30 PM by Josh Martin