DennisT Posted January 17, 2019 at 02:50 PM Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 at 02:50 PM I was at a board meeting yesterday and brought up a topic to discuss. No motions were made and the topic was left on the table for future consideration. A fellow board member wanted to grandstand and force a vote so it could be voted down. So he made a motion to for the subject knowing that he had the numbers to defeat it 4 to 3. My question is since he made the motion for the subject can he then vote against it? There was no additional discussion once the motion was made. Thanks, Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmuel Gerber Posted January 17, 2019 at 02:58 PM Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 at 02:58 PM 8 minutes ago, DennisT said: My question is since he made the motion for the subject can he then vote against it? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Katz Posted January 17, 2019 at 03:16 PM Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 at 03:16 PM Your board might, if it wants more efficient and less contentious meetings, consider following the procedures in RONR, whereby the way to suggest an action is to make a motion, which is followed by debate. Introducing "topics for discussion" and leaving the motion for later tends to lead to circular arguments and confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted January 17, 2019 at 03:28 PM Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 at 03:28 PM 34 minutes ago, DennisT said: My question is since he made the motion for the subject can he then vote against it? As Mr. Gerber has already said, a member may vote against his own motion. Making a motion in the hopes that it will be voted down so the organization is somewhat "on record" on the issue is permissible. However, RONR prohibits a member from speaking against his own motion in debate. If a member makes a motion which he truly supports, but changes his mind about it during debate, he can vote against it but cannot speak against it. He can, however, ask permission to withdraw the motion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted January 18, 2019 at 03:13 AM Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 at 03:13 AM 12 hours ago, DennisT said: I was at a board meeting yesterday and brought up a topic to discuss. No motions were made and the topic was left on the table for future consideration. A fellow board member wanted to grandstand and force a vote so it could be voted down. So he made a motion to for the subject knowing that he had the numbers to defeat it 4 to 3. My question is since he made the motion for the subject can he then vote against it? There was no additional discussion once the motion was made. Thanks, Dennis Yes, there is no rule preventing a member from voting against his own motion. There is a rule preventing him from speaking against his own motion in debate. Since the motion was defeated, it may be renewed (made again) at the next regular meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user Posted January 18, 2019 at 03:43 AM Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 at 03:43 AM Interesting. Just so I can make sure I'm clear on this - this was purposefully done so 1) the item was no longer on the table and 2) so it's officially in the minutes that the board already considered this issue and voted against it? Are there any other reasons? Not sure I fully understand the part where the "board member wanted to grandstand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted January 18, 2019 at 03:57 AM Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 at 03:57 AM 4 minutes ago, user said: Interesting. Just so I can make sure I'm clear on this - this was purposefully done so 1) the item was no longer on the table and 2) so it's officially in the minutes that the board already considered this issue and voted against it? Are there any other reasons? Not sure I fully understand the part where the "board member wanted to grandstand." "On the table" is far from the correct terminology. The purpose of making a motion that the member opposes has several procedural effects: 1. It puts the assembly on the record for considering some action and rejecting it. That might be necessary where a board must consider a specific action, based on some rule. You see this often governmental organizations, like zoning boards. 2. It suppresses the question for the session, unless the question is reconsidered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user Posted January 18, 2019 at 04:01 AM Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 at 04:01 AM 1 minute ago, J. J. said: "On the table" is far from the correct terminology. The purpose of making a motion that the member opposes has several procedural effects: 1. It puts the assembly on the record for considering some action and rejecting it. That might be necessary where a board must consider a specific action, based on some rule. You see this often governmental organizations, like zoning boards. 2. It suppresses the question for the session, unless the question is reconsidered. Ok. Got it. Thanks. I was just using that terminology because DennisT mentioned the "topic was left on the table for future consideration," so I figured it was done to take it off the table or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Katz Posted January 18, 2019 at 04:03 AM Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 at 04:03 AM Just now, user said: Ok. Got it. Thanks. I was just using that terminology because DennisT mentioned the "topic was left on the table for future consideration," so I figured it was done to take it off the table or something. Many organizations both use words incorrectly, and handle motions incorrectly. In this instance, for example, a motion is on the floor, not table, while under consideration - and here, there was no motion on the floor either, because the chair was allowing discussion without a motion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted January 18, 2019 at 04:05 AM Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 at 04:05 AM Just now, user said: Ok. Got it. Thanks. I was just using that terminology because DennisT mentioned the "topic was left on the table for future consideration," so I figured it was done to take it off the table or something. Under RONR, a motion "to lay the pending question(s) on the table" will temporally suppress the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis Hunt Posted January 20, 2019 at 08:15 AM Report Share Posted January 20, 2019 at 08:15 AM Furthermore, there is nothing preventing the motion from being renewed at a subsequent session (and for most organizations, every meeting is a separate session). While it means that the Board is now officially on record as disapproving of the action, procedurally it does not make the slightest difference to the Board deciding to do so later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VMuller Posted March 22, 2019 at 04:18 PM Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 at 04:18 PM Hello, what chapter and section addresses the fact that the person making the motion (sponsor) can vote either for or against? Txs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Mervosh Posted March 22, 2019 at 04:24 PM Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 at 04:24 PM 5 minutes ago, Guest VMuller said: Hello, what chapter and section addresses the fact that the person making the motion (sponsor) can vote either for or against? Txs "REFRAINING FROM SPEAKING AGAINST ONE'S OWN MOTION. In debate, the maker of a motion, while he can vote against it, is not allowed to speak against his own motion. He need not speak at all, but if he does he is obliged to take a favorable position. If he changes his mind while the motion he made is pending, he can, in effect, advise the assembly of this by asking permission to withdraw the motion (pp. 295–97). " RONR (11th ed.), p. 393 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VMuller Posted March 22, 2019 at 05:11 PM Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 at 05:11 PM Thank you George! I was losing my mind looking for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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