BabbsJohnson Posted February 27, 2019 at 02:01 PM Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 at 02:01 PM Hello Parliamentarians I have a question that I’m going to try to explain, and I hope that it’s clear. We currently have a president who acts as chair, but also seems to dominate every meeting by rebutting everybody’s discussion and expounding at length of her own opinions about any topic that we happen to be discussing. This usually happens before any motion is made, outside of our normal debate/discussion time. My concern is that since she leads almost every discussion and puts a lot of opinion out into the arena before anyone has had a chance to think about it, and that she influences the tone of the discussion and how it should be thought of, before anybody gets to talk after a motion is made, and the “official” discussion begins. She often interrupts people, talks over them, and then when someone is talking, does a constant comment stream as they’re talking, which can be very intimidating to some people. The current board members have been there for a short time, and only know this environment for our meetings. None of them know anything of Roberts rules. In the past when our board has distributed the RONR, that was the end of the topic of the discussion, and it was never referenced again-not in practice or in review. I feel that she has already set the tone to discourage people from opposing her in anything. No one of the board members feels empowered to make points of order or to interrupt or oppose her. How can I make them understand that she does not rule the meetings? How do I say this to them without her basically steamrollering over me to prove that she does in fact rule the meetings? Also, every time I’ve spoken up in the past she’s used her assumed power to make sure that I pay for it in some way. The fact is, this has been going on for a long time, and I have contemplated leaving the board, moving from my HOA, and even suicide, because I feel so personally helpless in this situation. I thought of suggesting that we hire a parliamentarian, and that would be a good first start, but I think that she would be on her best behavior for that meeting that the parliamentarian attended, or that she will shoot down the idea, saying that we can “make do” and don’t need that. This has taken a huge toll on me emotionally and mentally. All of the previous entries that I have made in the past that reference another female on our board, is the person that I’m talking about. She enjoys belittling people and “putting people in their place”. I honestly don’t know what to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted February 27, 2019 at 02:34 PM Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 at 02:34 PM (edited) 33 minutes ago, Nosey said: How can I make them understand that she does not rule the meetings? How do I say this to them without her basically steamrollering over me to prove that she does in fact rule the meetings? Speak with the board members outside of a meeting, without the President present. Offer to buy them lunch if necessary. If you are successful in getting some backbone into the other members, then get a new President. See FAQ #20. Whether or not this is successful, it may also be prudent to seek legal counsel. 33 minutes ago, Nosey said: I thought of suggesting that we hire a parliamentarian, and that would be a good first start, but I think that she would be on her best behavior for that meeting that the parliamentarian attended, or that she will shoot down the idea, saying that we can “make do” and don’t need that. These are valid concerns. It is also possible that the President will simply ignore the parliamentarian. A parliamentarian is simply an advisor to the chair. There is no Parli-Pro Police. Edited February 27, 2019 at 02:35 PM by Josh Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BabbsJohnson Posted February 27, 2019 at 02:54 PM Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 at 02:54 PM Thank you for the response When you say seek legal counsel, what would I be asking them exactly? Re: talking to the other board members Based on recent past communications with the other board members, I believe that she has told them not to talk to me outside of meetings, and she personally stonewalls me when I ask for conversation outside of meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted February 27, 2019 at 05:42 PM Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 at 05:42 PM 2 hours ago, Nosey said: When you say seek legal counsel, what would I be asking them exactly? I did not have anything in particular in mind. I was merely suggesting it since that it seems a parliamentary solution is unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shmuel Gerber Posted February 27, 2019 at 06:58 PM Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 at 06:58 PM 4 hours ago, Nosey said: The fact is, this has been going on for a long time, and I have contemplated leaving the board, moving from my HOA, and even suicide, because I feel so personally helpless in this situation. The last option should not be an option. A top result on Google is https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org . You might want to check it out ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake Savory Posted February 27, 2019 at 08:26 PM Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 at 08:26 PM 6 hours ago, Nosey said: I thought of suggesting that we hire a parliamentarian, and that would be a good first start, but I think that she would be on her best behavior for that meeting that the parliamentarian attended, or that she will shoot down the idea, saying that we can “make do” and don’t need that. Why not study RONR and become an unofficial floor parliamentarian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zev Posted February 27, 2019 at 09:15 PM Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 at 09:15 PM Curiosity question: How did this person become president of this HOA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BabbsJohnson Posted February 27, 2019 at 09:18 PM Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 at 09:18 PM Zev She has been President for several years. The other recent members are less experienced and before that, no one wanted the position. For the last several years it had been pre-arranged with her making agreements with people asking them to elect her to that position and she would elect them to other positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BabbsJohnson Posted February 27, 2019 at 09:20 PM Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 at 09:20 PM 53 minutes ago, Drake Savory said: Why not study RONR and become an unofficial floor parliamentarian. That’s not a bad idea, it just doesn’t help me right now I’m not sure exactly what it takes to become an unofficial parliamentarian... do you have any idea how many hours etc.it might take? And also, does it cost a lot to become an official one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BabbsJohnson Posted February 27, 2019 at 09:21 PM Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 at 09:21 PM 2 hours ago, Shmuel Gerber said: The last option should not be an option. A top result on Google is https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org . You might want to check it out ASAP. Yes, I know. It’s been a very rough couple of years, with this on top of other things unrelated. I appreciate your concern, it’s just passing the thoughts that come to me when I feel desperate and hopeless about all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BabbsJohnson Posted February 27, 2019 at 09:22 PM Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 at 09:22 PM 3 hours ago, Josh Martin said: I did not have anything in particular in mind. I was merely suggesting it since that it seems a parliamentary solution is unlikely. I see, Well I truly appreciate your input, and I will think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Goodwiller, PRP Posted February 27, 2019 at 09:48 PM Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 at 09:48 PM Regarding your question about the cost of becoming an official parliamentarian, go to the website of the National Association of Parliamentarians (www.parliamentarians.org), and you'll find a bunch of information. Knowledge is power, and learning RONR well is definitely empowering for knowing what to do in a meeting, what your rights are, how to appeal bad rulings, etc. In the meantime, take care of yourself. There is a lot more important in life than your HOA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Katz Posted February 27, 2019 at 10:06 PM Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 at 10:06 PM 44 minutes ago, Nosey said: I’m not sure exactly what it takes to become an unofficial parliamentarian... do you have any idea how many hours etc.it might take? And also, does it cost a lot to become an official one? It takes nothing in particular to be an unofficial parliamentarian, except study and self-confidence (and others having confidence). As for an official parliamentarian, the National Association of Parliamentarians offers a membership exam to join, a 5-part test (I think, if memory serves) to be a Registered Parliamentarian, and a several-day course and evaluation to become a Professional Registered Parliamentarian. I suppose it's a matter of judgment as to which of the latter two makes one "official." I am a Registered Parliamentarian because I have not been able to schedule a class (I was scheduled to take one, and paid for it, but then work conflicted and I couldn't make it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BabbsJohnson Posted February 28, 2019 at 08:45 AM Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 at 08:45 AM Thanks, everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake Savory Posted February 28, 2019 at 06:00 PM Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 at 06:00 PM Just to add on, I have been my organization's unofficial parliamentarian for 3 years and just now pulled the trigger and joined NAP (passed the entrance exam - yay me). All I did for the three years was buy a copy of RONR, read & highlighted (highlit?) it and asked about anything I didn't understand on this MB. Also, take note of anything unusual because even if you don't know the answer then and there you can look it up in RONR or ask about it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted February 28, 2019 at 07:28 PM Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 at 07:28 PM 1 hour ago, Drake Savory said: Just to add on, I have been my organization's unofficial parliamentarian for 3 years and just now pulled the trigger and joined NAP (passed the entrance exam - yay me) Congratulations... and welcome! We are happy to have you as an official member of the forum.... and as a member of NAP! Passing the basic membership test indicates that you do have at least a rudimentary working knowledge of RONR. Now, on to the RP exam. . . . 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake Savory Posted February 28, 2019 at 07:29 PM Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 at 07:29 PM Just now, Richard Brown said: Congratulations... and welcome! We are happy to have you as an official member of the forum.... and as a member of NAP! Passing the basic membership test indicates that you do have at least a rudimentary working knowledge of RONR. Now, on to the RP exam. . . . 🙂 Thank you. I have to wait while they are revising the RP test. The live test seems interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Katz Posted February 28, 2019 at 09:10 PM Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 at 09:10 PM I haven't heard anything about the RP revision, but I hope you enjoyed the revised membership exam. I served on that committee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted February 28, 2019 at 09:42 PM Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 at 09:42 PM (edited) 31 minutes ago, Joshua Katz said: I haven't heard anything about the RP revision, but I hope you enjoyed the revised membership exam. I served on that committee. The entire credentialing process, starting with the RP exam, is being completely revised. I believe it is to become effective in June or July, but members who have passed at least two parts of the current RP exam by June 30 may complete the RP process using the current exam within the currently existing time frame. I believe that is either six or twelve months. Edited to add: The PRP credentialing process is being revised, too. Edited February 28, 2019 at 09:43 PM by Richard Brown Added last paragraph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Katz Posted February 28, 2019 at 10:09 PM Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 at 10:09 PM I trust I get to remain an RP, but will I need to recredential if I want to do PRP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted February 28, 2019 at 10:50 PM Report Share Posted February 28, 2019 at 10:50 PM (edited) 43 minutes ago, Joshua Katz said: I trust I get to remain an RP, but will I need to recredential if I want to do PRP? You get to remain an RP until it expires under the existing rules, but the procedure for becoming a PRP will be different. I don't know the exact date the new procedure kicks in.... I'm not even sure if NAP has announced it. The information in this link should help. Note: It's lengthy, doggone it: https://www.parliamentarians.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Presentation-NTC-2018-CommAppproved.pdf Edited to add: I'm not sure about the procedure for renewing an RP status. I think it's explained in the link. Edited February 28, 2019 at 10:52 PM by Richard Brown Added last paragraph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Goodwiller, PRP Posted March 1, 2019 at 03:09 AM Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 at 03:09 AM I am serving as the "technical assistant" to the credentialing commission. In that capacity, I have signed a confidentiality agreement that bars me from disclosing anything about the content of the new tests; however, I can tell you where they are in the process. "Alpha testing" is currently underway (current RP's and PRP's taking the new tests to establish baselines and identify problems with particular questions). Once that process is complete and adjustments have been made, "beta testing" will begin, in which an already identified representative pool of members seeking their RP credential will take the tests, resulting in another round of adjustments. After that, the new RP testing will at some point go live. I am doubtful that all of that will occur by this summer. So if someone were on the verge of taking the registration exam at this moment - or even in the next few months - I would advise them to proceed with the current exam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted March 1, 2019 at 10:17 AM Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 at 10:17 AM This is all very interesting to folks, I'm sure, but please remember that this forum has been provided to "allow an open exchange of views relevant to specific questions of parliamentary procedure under Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Geiger Posted March 1, 2019 at 07:22 PM Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 at 07:22 PM 5 hours ago, Daniel H. Honemann said: This is all very interesting to folks, I'm sure, but please remember that this forum has been provided to "allow an open exchange of views relevant to specific questions of parliamentary procedure under Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised." Would it be worth introducing a separate forum (preferably on this board) for advice and discussion about other aspects of being a parliamentarian? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted March 1, 2019 at 08:43 PM Report Share Posted March 1, 2019 at 08:43 PM (edited) 1 hour ago, Benjamin Geiger said: Would it be worth introducing a separate forum (preferably on this board) for advice and discussion about other aspects of being a parliamentarian? No. There are other places that deal with that. Edited March 1, 2019 at 08:43 PM by J. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts