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jrmcmullenjr

Application of Footnote Page 643

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Our board entertained a motion to censure based on behavior that did not take in a meeting without following formal disciplinary procedures. 

Is the footnote on page 643 limited to the circumstances outlined on page 646 line 28 ? In other words limited to behavior occurring in a meeting where voting members are witness. Or can the footnote on page 643 by applied to the Offenses Elsewhere Than in a Meeting found on page 649. It would seem to me the footnote on page 643 warns of the possibility found on page 646 line 28.

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21 minutes ago, jrmcmullenjr said:

Our board entertained a motion to censure based on behavior that did not take in a meeting without following formal disciplinary procedures. 

Is the footnote on page 643 limited to the circumstances outlined on page 646 line 28 ? In other words limited to behavior occurring in a meeting where voting members are witness. Or can the footnote on page 643 by applied to the Offenses Elsewhere Than in a Meeting found on page 649. It would seem to me the footnote on page 643 warns of the possibility found on page 646 line 28.

No.  That footnote is not limited to offenses occurring in a meeting.  It applies to any motion of censure.  It is simply a statement that a motion of censure doesn't necessarily have to be in the nature of a disciplinary proceeding.

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That would seem to be inconsistent with the guidance provide on page 649 line 21. I cannot see any way around the idea that censure is anything but a public rebuke. As such how can it be considered anything but disciplinary in nature? In this case the Representative making the motion to censure tried the case in the local newspaper and on television. The special meeting called for the censure motion was a spectacular spectacle and did more to damage the reputation of the board than the behavior of the member censured. The justification for the approach taken hinges on the footnote on page 643. Instead of an investigative process taking place in executive session we had a week of sensational headlines and news stories. I fear your interpretation, no offense intended, is subject to continued abuse.

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6 minutes ago, jrmcmullenjr said:

I fear your interpretation, no offense intended, is subject to continued abuse.

Well, take it up with the authorship team.  It's their rule and has been the rule for quite some time.  Several passages in RONR make plain that a motion to commend someone can be amended to become a motion of censure and vice versa.  RONR is clear that a non-disciplinary motion of censure is permissible.

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53 minutes ago, jrmcmullenjr said:

In this case the Representative making the motion to censure tried the case in the local newspaper...

If you feel that this individual crossed the line then perhaps you should move to create a committee to investigate and recommend further disciplinary action.

57 minutes ago, jrmcmullenjr said:

I cannot see any way around the idea that censure is anything but a public rebuke.

Also, what passes for censure in downtown Riyadh and downtown Las Vegas may be viewed in a vastly different way for the exact same act.

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13 hours ago, Richard Brown said:

Well, take it up with the authorship team.  It's their rule and has been the rule for quite some time.  Several passages in RONR make plain that a motion to commend someone can be amended to become a motion of censure and vice versa.  RONR is clear that a non-disciplinary motion of censure is permissible.

I agree that RONR is clear that a non-disciplinary motion of censure is permissible, but I do not think this categorically means that the assembly may always adopt a motion of censure without a trial.

There was recently a lengthy discussion on this subject here.

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19 hours ago, jrmcmullenjr said:

Our board entertained a motion to censure based on behavior that did not take in a meeting without following formal disciplinary procedures. 

Is the footnote on page 643 limited to the circumstances outlined on page 646 line 28 ? In other words limited to behavior occurring in a meeting where voting members are witness. Or can the footnote on page 643 by applied to the Offenses Elsewhere Than in a Meeting found on page 649. It would seem to me the footnote on page 643 warns of the possibility found on page 646 line 28.

The footnote on p. 643 refers to a motion to censure, i.e. "That _____ be censured," in its simplest form.    Adopting that motion expresses an opinion of the assembly.  It does not punish.  There is no finding of guilt. 

The process described on pp. 645-7 refers to the disciplinary process for an offense, where the member is "named" by the chair.  That "naming" is, effectively, the finding of guilt.  Certainly a point of order could be raised that the chair has improperly "named" a member. 

If the member is "named" then the assembly may inflict a penalty (or decline to do so).  In that case, the question is "what penalty shall be imposed upon a member (p. 647, l. 13-14)."  At that point censure becomes a possible punishment; it is not the only possible punishment.  The assembly is not considering the motion "That _____ be censured." 

5 hours ago, Josh Martin said:

I agree that RONR is clear that a non-disciplinary motion of censure is permissible, but I do not think this categorically means that the assembly may always adopt a motion of censure without a trial.

There was recently a lengthy discussion on this subject here.

Certainly censure can be a punishment, after a finding of guilt. 

Edited by J. J.

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