Election of chair pro tem

[mjhmjh]

At our next meeting, the president, Vice President, and secretary will not be present. RONR says:

"If neither the president nor any vice-president is present, the secretary—or in the secretary's absence some other member—should call the meeting to order, and the assembly should immediately elect a chairman pro tem to preside during that session. Such office is terminated by the entrance of the president or a vice-president, or by the adoption of a motion to "declare the chair vacant and proceed to elect a new chairman" (see pp. 651–52)." (Page 453)

 

Our plan is to have some member call the meeting to order and chair the election of a chair pro tem. Then, the newly elected chair pro tem will chair the election of a secretary pro tem. Can these elections be by unanimous consent? Is a quorum necessary to elect a chair pro tem and a secretary pro tem for just that meeting?

Edited May 21, 2019 at 10:16 PM by mjhmjh

[Gary Novosielski]

Yes, the elections could be by unanimous consent, especially if the choice is expected not to be controversial.

In my opinion, a quorum is required to elect a chair pro tem and secretary pro tem.  

If there is no quorum, and no prospect of obtaining one, the member calling the meeting to order should note the absence of a quorum and declare the meeting adjourned.  Since no secretary was present, the member calling the meeting to order should supply a draft of the (brief) minutes of the meeting to the regular secretary.

Edited to add:  Disregard the stricken portion above as this question is clarified later in this thread.

Edited May 22, 2019 at 04:57 AM by Gary Novosielski

[mjhmjh]

41 minutes ago, Gary Novosielski said:

Yes, the elections could be by unanimous consent, especially if the choice is expected not to be controversial.

In my opinion, a quorum is required to elect a chair pro tem and secretary pro tem.  

If there is no quorum, and no prospect of obtaining one, the member calling the meeting to order should note the absence of a quorum and declare the meeting adjourned.  Since no secretary was present, the member calling the meeting to order should supply a draft of the (brief) minutes of the meeting to the regular secretary.

There could be debate over whether to schedule an adjourned meeting. Wouldn't an elected chair pro tem have more legitimacy in such an event?

[Joshua Katz]

16 minutes ago, mjhmjh said:

There could be debate over whether to schedule an adjourned meeting. Wouldn't an elected chair pro tem have more legitimacy in such an event?

I'd think so, but since it is not listed as one of the business items that may be conducted without a quorum, I think I agree with Mr. Novosielski. The fact that adjourn is listed tells me it's meant to be exhaustive.

[Guest Zev]

27 minutes ago, Joshua Katz said:

...but since it is not listed as one of the business items that may be conducted without a quorum,...

Did I understand you correctly?

Quote

Even in the absence of a quorum, the assembly may fix the time to which to adjourn (22), adjourn (21), recess (20), or take measures to obtain a quorum.

RONR 11th edition page 347.

[Weldon Merritt]

39 minutes ago, Joshua Katz said:

I'd think so, but since it is not listed as one of the business items that may be conducted without a quorum, I think I agree with Mr. Novosielski. The fact that adjourn is listed tells me it's meant to be exhaustive.

"Subsidiary and incidental motions, questions of privilege, motions to Raise a Question of Privilege or Call for the Orders of the Day, and other motions may also be considered if they are related to these motions or to the conduct of the meeting while it remains without a quorum." RONR, pp. 347-348.

It seems to me that election of chair pro tem and a secretary pro tem are "related ... to the conduct of the meeting while it remains without a quorum."

[Joshua Katz]

12 minutes ago, Guest Zev said:

Did I understand you correctly?

Quote

I may have been unclear. I was referring to the election of a chair pro tem, and agreeing with:

1 hour ago, Gary Novosielski said:

In my opinion, a quorum is required to elect a chair pro tem and secretary pro tem.  

 

 

[Dan Honemann]

"Subsidiary and incidental motions, questions of privilege, motions to Raise a Question of Privilege or Call for the Orders of the Day, and other motions may also be considered if they are related to these motions or to the conduct of the meeting while it remains without a quorum."  (RONR, 11th ed. pp. 347-48) 

Election of a chairman  pro tem and election of a secretary pro tem fall within this category. 

[Joshua Katz]

1 minute ago, Weldon Merritt said:

 It seems to me that election of chair pro tem and a secretary pro tem are "related ... to the conduct of the meeting while it remains without a quorum."

Hmm, I'll buy that.

[J. J.]

3 hours ago, Joshua Katz said:

Hmm, I'll buy that.

See also "RONR Versus the Blizzard," National Parliamentarian, Fourth Quarter 2010. 

I am in agreement with Mr. Honemann and Mr. Merritt. 

[Gary Novosielski]

4 hours ago, Daniel H. Honemann said:

"Subsidiary and incidental motions, questions of privilege, motions to Raise a Question of Privilege or Call for the Orders of the Day, and other motions may also be considered if they are related to these motions or to the conduct of the meeting while it remains without a quorum."  (RONR, 11th ed. pp. 347-48) 

Election of a chairman  pro tem and election of a secretary pro tem fall within this category. 

Good.

When I first read the question, it occurred to me that it would be beneficial to be able to elect a chair pro-tem (and in this scenario a secretary pro tem as well) even in the absence of a quorum, but I wasn't able to find the rule that would allow it.

Thanks.