Designated proxy

[CornelR]

We are coming up on our Summer meeting and we will be electing a temporary chairman to fill out the remaining term of the elected chair who resigned in March. As a bit of background that may help, our rules allow proxy voting for issues. Proxies are not allowed to elect officers at the county and legislative district level. Proxies are allowed to elect officers at the regional level but they are not allowed to elect the chairman at our biennial convention (the terms of the officers are two years). The question came up as to whether we could use proxies to elect the interim chairman. And there have been differing opinions. Some think that because the no proxy rule is related to the convention, proxies can thus be used to elect a temporary chairman this June. The question that is lately come to light is the issue of people who want to send their proxy specifying who to vote for as chair. This would be something akin to a write in vote which is not allowed by our rules. With that information can you help me with this question? Can members send their proxies with someone who was able to attend the meeting but specify who that proxy vote is to be for? It is likely we will have two possibly three people running for chair.
 

Edited June 7, 2019 at 11:08 PM by CornelR
misspelled word

[Joshua Katz]

Others may have better suggestions, but it seems to me that this is going to boil down to interpretation of your own rules, which only your organization can do. In other words, I don't think we'll be able to help you much, unfortunately. 

[Guest Zev]

It seems reasonable that if a person is elected to a position by one set of criteria then another person elected to the same position should also be elected by the same set of criteria. However, as Mr. Katz has indicated, this type of rule interpretation is something your organization is going to have to decide.

[Guest Who's Coming to Dinner]

2 hours ago, CornelR said:

Can members send their proxies with someone who was able to attend the meeting but specify who that proxy vote is to be for? It is likely we will have two possibly three people running for chair.
 

RONR does not permit proxies, and, in fact, frowns on them. You are on your own.

[Richard Brown]

Do you not have a vice chairman who would automatically succeed to the chairmanship?

[CornelR]

10 hours ago, Richard Brown said:

Do you not have a vice chairman who would automatically succeed to the chairmanship?

Yes and that happened but we now must by our rules, elect a chairman to fill out the remainder of the term.

[Richard Brown]

1 hour ago, CornelR said:

Yes and that happened but we now must by our rules, elect a chairman to fill out the remainder of the term.

What exactly do your bylaws say about a vacancy in the office of the chairman and the vice chairman filling the vacancy? Please quote verbatim, don't paraphrase .  Usually the vice president or vice chairman completes the remainder of the term. What do your bylaws say that is different? 

[CornelR]

Here are the relevant sections of our rules:

 

Section 2: The first meeting of the Republican State Central Committee shall take place immediately upon adjournment of the State Convention, at which time said committee may fill vacancies on the statewide ticket. The Committee shall thereafter be called to fill any vacancy on the statewide ticket which may occur before the General Election. Meetings of the Committee may be called by the State Chairman or, in the case of a vacancy in the Chairmanship, by the First Vice Chairman, and in the case of absence in the office of First Vice Chairman, by the Second Vice Chairman. Such call shall be issued at least thirty (30) days in advance of the date of the proposed semi-annual regular meeting and thirty (30) days in advance for special meetings and within fifteen (15) days for emergency meetings or as otherwise provided by Idaho Code and shall state the business to be transacted at the meeting and such other business as may properly come before it. Regular meetings shall be held at least twice annually.

Section 6: If the office of the Chairman becomes vacant, by reason of resignation, death or otherwise, the First Vice-Chairman shall assume all duties and responsibilities of the State Chairman until the next regularly scheduled Republican State Central Committee meeting elects a new State Chairman to serve until a successor is duly elected by the next Republican State Convention. If no regular Republican State Central Committee meeting is before the next Republican State Convention, then the First Vice-Chairman shall assume all duties and responsibilities of the State Chairman until a successor is duly elected by the next Republican State Convention. There shall be no automatic succession to the office of State Chairman.

[Dan Honemann]

The first thing I should do is refer you to FAQ #10. Nothing else that I say on this subject has any real significance.

Having said that, I must say that I find the facts as stated a bit confusing. I assume that when you refer to "we" (your organization) you are referring to your state's Republican State Central Committee, and that this Committee is a "regional level" entity, as referred to in your initial post, so that proxy voting is allowed at its meetings, although there seems to be some doubt as to whether or not proxies can be used in an election to fill a vacancy in the office of Chairman.

You tell us that:

"The question that is lately come to light is the issue of people who want to send their proxy specifying who to vote for as chair. This would be something akin to a write in vote which is not allowed by our rules. With that information can you help me with this question? Can members send their proxies with someone who was able to attend the meeting but specify who that proxy vote is to be for? It is likely we will have two possibly three people running for chair."

If a valid proxy directs that it is to be used to vote for the election of someone who is nominated, I don't see why this would be akin to a write-in vote.
 

 

 

 

[CornelR]

3 minutes ago, Daniel H. Honemann said:

The first thing I should do is refer you to FAQ #10. Nothing else that I say on this subject has any real significance.

Having said that, I must say that I find the facts as stated a bit confusing. I assume that when you refer to "we" (your organization) you are referring to your state's Republican State Central Committee, and that this Committee is a "regional level" entity, as referred to in your initial post, so that proxy voting is allowed at its meetings, although there seems to be some doubt as to whether or not proxies can be used in an election to fill a vacancy in the office of Chairman.

You tell us that:

"The question that is lately come to light is the issue of people who want to send their proxy specifying who to vote for as chair. This would be something akin to a write in vote which is not allowed by our rules. With that information can you help me with this question? Can members send their proxies with someone who was able to attend the meeting but specify who that proxy vote is to be for? It is likely we will have two possibly three people running for chair."

If a valid proxy directs that it is to be used to vote for the election of someone who is nominated, I don't see why this would be akin to a write-in vote.
 

My apologies for not being clear. I am referring to the State GOP Central Committee. It exists in several parts. The State executive committee which consists of the chair, two vice-chairs, secretary, treasurer and various others.

Then the (rather large) state is divided into regions with a Region committee consisting of a chair, vice-chair, and a secretary. Then there are 35 Legislative Districts each with a central committee of a chair, vice-chait and secretary. Last there are 44 counties with a chair, vice-chair, secretary, treasurer, state committee-woman, state committeeman, and a state youth committeeman. This is similar to most states.

 

This concern is about the state chair. It has been a 3 month discussion starting with the general proxy issue. I am one of the folks the state consults about these issues. Back in May I sent an analysis of the issue to the state GOP after reading their attorney’s (the Jason referred to) analysis. I included the sections in Robert’s that speak to voting and proxies as well as a reference to FAQ#10. This was my initial analysis:

 

“While I understand Jason’s analysis and even see the procedure by which he came to his conclusion I must say that absent the requirement that the ID GOP follow Roberts Rules where no rule exists, his conclusion would be the only conclusion to be drawn. It may be so anyway but below I’ve presented all the information from Roberts. Be it known that Roberts rules discourages proxy voting in all its forms noting that proxy voting should only be allowed if an organizations bylaws permit it. Where there is no clear direction is always been our procedure to default to Robert’s Rules. If we were to do that in this case, and with the clear and compelling provision that the chair cannot be voted by proxy at a convention, I believe we should at least consider the idea that no proxies be allowed to replace the chairman. The one man one vote concept that our nation enjoys is turned on its head by allowing proxies in elections. Second, there is no way for anyone who sends a proxy vote to be able to be swayed by the nomination speeches and/or the seconding speeches. I will yield to Jason’s analysis, but I just spent over an hour on the forum at Roberts rules online where I searched this question out and the general consensus was that absent a specific authorization of proxy voting in a specific area, if an organization has adopted Robert’s as their parliamentary authority, they should not use a proxy in such an unspecified area.

Below I have included the relevant sections for Roberts rules.” (Here I inserted those sections which would be superfluous on this forum)

 

It appeared that the state was going with the attorney’s analysis when the secondary issue of designated proxies came up. My take was that if proxies were to be allowed, then certainly they could be so designated. That is, a proxy could be sent with a properly authorized carrier that specified a specific candidate for him to cast his vote for. I allowed that one negative aspect of this plan would be that it would also not give the proxy sender the benefit of hearing the debate and speeches which might influence their vote. But if they were ignoring that aspect by allowing proxy election in the first place at least it would be consistent.

 

At that point, I submitted my question to this forum where there are far wiser folk than I

 

 

 

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[Dan Honemann]

21 minutes ago, CornelR said:

At that point, I submitted my question to this forum where there are far wiser folk than I

I'm not at all certain about this.

In any event, I suppose these questions will need to be resolved by use of the point of order and appeal process described in Sections 23 and 24 of RONR, unless your Committee has some other rules indicating otherwise.

[CornelR]

Just now, Daniel H. Honemann said:

I'm not at all certain about this.

In any event, I suppose these questions will need to be resolved by use of the point of order and appeal process described in Sections 23 and 24 of RONR, unless your Committee has some other rules indicating otherwise.

Thank you for your effort. It is a quandry.