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Ruling on a Point of Order


BabbsJohnson
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 I was looking around in RONR to see if there was a guide on how to rule on points of order,  but I’m wondering if the gist of it comes down to the following:

The point of order is called ...

If the referenced rule exists, and was if fact broken, the chair should rule it as well taken, and perhaps make a comment on how that rule should not be broken

If the rule does not exist or an existing rule was not being broken, then the chair should rule it as not well taken

 

Am I right in thinking that personal remarks do not have to be an attack or an insult in order to breach decorum, because  personal remarks whether attacks, insults, or other remarks about a person’s nature, appearance, mood, ethnicity, disability, etc, tend to be not germane, and therefore are out of order(?)

 

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12 hours ago, .oOllXllOo. said:

If the referenced rule exists, and was if fact broken, the chair should rule it as well taken, and perhaps make a comment on how that rule should not be broken

If the rule does not exist or an existing rule was not being broken, then the chair should rule it as not well taken

I think this is all correct, and would add that in either case, the chair must provide the reasoning for the ruling.

12 hours ago, .oOllXllOo. said:

Am I right in thinking that personal remarks do not have to be an attack or an insult in order to breach decorum, because  personal remarks whether attacks, insults, or other remarks about a person’s nature, appearance, mood, ethnicity, disability, etc, tend to be not germane, and therefore are out of order(?)

Unless the motion is actually involving a person directly, comments regarding a person will be out of order in any event because they will not be germane to the pending motion. The remarks might, additionally, be a violation of decorum, depending on their nature.

Now, if a person is actually involved in the motion directly (such as an election or a motion to censure), the situation is somewhat different, but even in such cases I would be inclined to rule at least some of the categories of comments you mention out of order as not germane.

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28 minutes ago, Josh Martin said:

I think this is all correct, and would add that in either case, the chair must provide the reasoning for the ruling.

Unless the motion is actually involving a person directly, comments regarding a person will be out of order in any event because they will not be germane to the pending motion. The remarks might, additionally, be a violation of decorum, depending on their nature.

Now, if a person is actually involved in the motion directly (such as an election or a motion to censure), the situation is somewhat different, but even in such cases I would be inclined to rule at least some of the categories of comments you mention out of order as not germane.

What personal comments could be made in a censure?

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I rather do not think it is necessary or appropriate to quote "personal comments" in a motion of censure. I would caution you about this sort of thing, lest you find yourself a defendant in a civil suit, whether meritorious or not. Once again, I would like to recommend that you obtain legal counsel before you go wandering off in this direction.

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1 minute ago, reelsman said:

I rather do not think it is necessary or appropriate to quote "personal comments" in a motion of censure. I would caution you about this sort of thing, lest you find yourself a defendant in a civil suit, whether meritorious or not. Once again, I would like to recommend that you obtain legal counsel before you go wandering off in this direction.

The reason I ask is because I’m expecting someone who does not know parliamentary procedure to motion to censure, and I want to know what is allowed and what is not. I’m not planning to censure anyone.

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2 hours ago, reelsman said:

I rather do not think it is necessary or appropriate to quote "personal comments" in a motion of censure. I would caution you about this sort of thing, lest you find yourself a defendant in a civil suit, whether meritorious or not. Once again, I would like to recommend that you obtain legal counsel before you go wandering off in this direction.

Perhaps we are using the term differently. All I meant to say was that debate on a motion to censure, by its nature, will probably involve some discussion of why the person is being censured, which will naturally involve comments regarding the person who is being censured.  Presumably, this will relate to one or more actions the person in question has taken which the assembly disapproves of. Conversely, a motion to buy pizza has no reason to involve comments regarding any person (positive, negative, or neutral) because they are not germane to the question before the assembly.

I have no disagreement that there are still some limits in parliamentary law regarding what comments are in order, and there will likely also be legal concerns as well.

Edited by Josh Martin
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11 minutes ago, Josh Martin said:

Conversely, a motion to buy pizza has no reason to involve comments regarding any person (positive, negative, or neutral) because they are not germane to the question before the assembly.

"I'm voting against the motion because Josh will be the one buying the pizza and he'll pick some weird toppings like pineapple and anchovies!"

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