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Alexis Hunt

Reconsideration of a motion to Postpone Definitely

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Guest Zev
20 minutes ago, Alexis Hunt said:

I note that, similarly, p. 329, ll. 1-8 is clear that a motion to reconsider a series which includes a vote on a main motion can be taken up when a motion to reconsider the main motion alone could be, however, no mention is made of a series including an affirmative vote on a motion to postpone indefinitely.

Ms. Hunt, with due respect, I believe you are not reading this correctly.

Quote

To Reconsider an Adhering Subsidiary or Incidental Motion: Reconsideration Moved After the Main Question Has Been Acted Upon. If it is desired to reconsider the vote on a subsidiary or incidental motion (an amendment, for example) after the main question to which it adhered has been finally disposed of (by adoption, rejection, or indefinite postponement), the vote on the main question, or on its indefinite postponement, must also be reconsidered (see also Standard Characteristic 2). In such a case, one motion to Reconsider should be made to cover both the vote on the subsidiary or incidental motion whose reconsideration is desired, and the vote on the main question (or its indefinite postponement). The member who makes this motion to Reconsider must have voted with the prevailing side in the original vote on the subsidiary or incidental motion -- that is, on the motion which will be reconsidered first if the reconsideration takes place.

RONR 11th edition pages 327(L:31)-328(L:12).

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11 hours ago, Alexis Hunt said:

Actually, now that I look, I'm not clear that the rules are clearly specified even for indefinite postponement. On close reading, pp. 327-329 seems only to apply to motions that did not dispose of the main motion. p. 322, ll. 15-19 states that a motion may be taken up when it could have been made originally. We seem to be in agreement that a motion to reconsider an affirmative vote on a definite or indefinite postponement is taken up immediately if no business is pending. But subsidiary motions cannot be made when no business is pending. Is there language somewhere else that I'm missing specifying when a motion to reconsider an affirmative vote on a motion to postpone a motion indefinitely can be taken up?

I note that, similarly, p. 329, ll. 1-8 is clear that a motion to reconsider a series which includes a vote on a main motion can be taken up when a motion to reconsider the main motion alone could be, however, no mention is made of a series including an affirmative vote on a motion to postpone indefinitely.

I think Ms. Hunt has this right. 

Responding to her question (which I have highlighted), I think the first footnote on page 111 offers at least some assistance in this regard. If she missed it, I can't imagine how.  🙂

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20 hours ago, Guest Zev said:

Ms. Hunt, with due respect, I believe you are not reading this correctly.

RONR 11th edition pages 327(L:31)-328(L:12).

All that this tells us is that, in order to reconsider a subsidiary motion when the main motion was postponed indefinitely, we must also reconsider the indefinite postponement, which I wholeheartedly agree with. It doesn't, however, tell us when we can take the resulting motion up.

8 hours ago, Daniel H. Honemann said:

I think Ms. Hunt has this right. 

Responding to her question (which I have highlighted), I think the first footnote on page 111 offers at least some assistance in this regard. If she missed it, I can't imagine how.  🙂

I had, naturally, missed it, but I think it offers only some assistance, given that it only describes the consequences of adopting the motion to Reconsider. But in order to do that, we must first take it up!

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Guest Zev
1 hour ago, Alexis Hunt said:

It doesn't, however, tell us when we can take the resulting motion up.

It is taken up whenever a main motion is in order, otherwise the motion to Reconsider is moved, seconded, and then delayed until the intervening business is disposed of. This is the consequence of being able to actually make the motion to Reconsider at times when the motion to be reconsidered would not be in order. RONR 11th edition p. 321 and 322.

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Actually, the motion is taken up when it is called up, when no other motion is pending. This might, or might not, be after the "intervening business" is disposed of.

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4 hours ago, Guest Zev said:

It is taken up whenever a main motion is in order, otherwise the motion to Reconsider is moved, seconded, and then delayed until the intervening business is disposed of. This is the consequence of being able to actually make the motion to Reconsider at times when the motion to be reconsidered would not be in order. RONR 11th edition p. 321 and 322.

A motion to postpone indefinitely is not, however, in order when no business is pending. And there is no main motion being reconsidered when reconsidering an affirmative vote on a motion to postpone indefinitely.

I'm not disagreeing with you as to what the correct procedure is, but you haven't actually cited a sentence yet that says that. I believe it's an omission from the text.

Edited by Alexis Hunt

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Guest Zev

I misquoted the relevant pages. The real reference should have been pages 327:31-328:12. My apology.

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Referring to the footnote on page 111 (by the way, it's also on page 127), Ms. Hunt says that " ... it offers only some assistance, given that it only describes the consequences of adopting the motion to Reconsider. But in order to do that, we must first take it up!"

Well, since the footnote tells us that the adoption of a motion to reconsider the affirmative vote on a motion to Postpone Indefinitely will cause the main motion so disposed of to become pending, it follows that such a motion can only be considered (taken up) at a time when it will be in order to consider the main motion so disposed of. In other words, in this respect the situation is just the same as if the main motion so disposed of had itself been voted on and rejected.

 

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14 hours ago, Alexis Hunt said:

A motion to postpone indefinitely is not, however, in order when no business is pending. And there is no main motion being reconsidered when reconsidering an affirmative vote on a motion to postpone indefinitely.

 

Yes, it is, though it is quite rare.  Postpone Indefinitely can be raised as an incidental main motion (p. 66, ll. 17-23). 

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1 hour ago, J. J. said:

Yes, it is, though it is quite rare.  Postpone Indefinitely can be raised as an incidental main motion (p. 66, ll. 17-23). 

Yeah, but don't believe it. There really is no such thing as an incidental main motion corresponding to Postpone Indefinitely.

In any event, it's beside the point. A main motion disposed of by adoption of a motion to Postpone Indefinitely is being reconsidered when the motion postponing it is reconsidered. 

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2 hours ago, Daniel H. Honemann said:

Yeah, but don't believe it. There really is no such thing as an incidental main motion corresponding to Postpone Indefinitely.

In any event, it's beside the point. A main motion disposed of by adoption of a motion to Postpone Indefinitely is being reconsidered when the motion postponing it is reconsidered. 

Nothing pending:  "Mr President, I move that any consideration of holding an October hay ride be postponed indefinitely."

The only advantage I can see is preventing future discussion of it during the session.

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I'm not sure I agree, but I am sure that discussion of this matter is entirely off-topic. This discussion is specific to subsidiary motions and so would not apply to a hypothetical incidental main motion to postpone something indefinitely.

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7 hours ago, Alexis Hunt said:

I'm not sure I agree, but I am sure that discussion of this matter is entirely off-topic. This discussion is specific to subsidiary motions and so would not apply to a hypothetical incidental main motion to postpone something indefinitely.

I think that it does give the answer, however. 

1.  If a main motion has been postponed indefinitely, it is not pending.  That is true if the motion has been postponed indefinitely by either a subsidiary motion or as part of an incidental main motion.

2.  A motion to reconsider can only be made against a motion that has been disposed, in general.

3.  Specifically, if a motion to Postpone Indefinitely is rejected, it is not subject to reconsideration.  If it is adopted, it is not pending.

I'm trying to understand what the bone of contention is in this.  I am failing to at this point. 

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On ‎7‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 10:59 AM, J. J. said:

1.  If a main motion has been postponed indefinitely, it is not pending.  That is true if the motion has been postponed indefinitely by either a subsidiary motion or as part of an incidental main motion.

Other than by some sort of suspension of the rules, the only way for a main motion to be postponed indefinitely is by the adoption of a subsidiary motion to Postpone Indefinitely which is applied to it while it is the immediately pending motion.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Daniel H. Honemann said:

Other than by some sort of suspension of the rules, the only way for a main motion to be postponed indefinitely is by the adoption of a subsidiary motion to Postpone Indefinitely which is applied to it while it is the immediately pending motion.

 

 

I do not agree, based on p. 66, ll. 18-22.  An incidental main motion that postpones something indefinitely can be adopted. 

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