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Discipline-modified


BabbsJohnson
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If a board is unable to use the trial process as it is desribed in RONR, could they modify it to make it useable, with a special rule of order?

Also: if a board decided to say, design a process to handle grivances among board members, could they do so and not neccesarily

include management in the process? Like could it be handled 100% by the board, assigned committees in needed, etc... If that was the will of the board?

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The trial process described in RONR is carried out by the membership. The board could not, by means of a special rule of order adopted by the board, take the disciplinary power onto itself and away from the membership; that would need to be done by a bylaw.

There is no requirement that any process ever include staff, unless one appears in your bylaws. But the ability to design a "grievance process" in the first place, depending on what you mean by that, could be limited.

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9 minutes ago, Joshua Katz said:

The trial process described in RONR is carried out by the membership. The board could not, by means of a special rule of order adopted by the board, take the disciplinary power onto itself and away from the membership; that would need to be done by a bylaw.

There is no requirement that any process ever include staff, unless one appears in your bylaws. But the ability to design a "grievance process" in the first place, depending on what you mean by that, could be limited.

Our membership is not well-versed in RONR, and because our state law only allows for a very restricted list of topics that can be discussed in Executive Session, it seems the trial process, as it is described in needing to be confined to executive session, is not available to us. 

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We've been over this ground before. That may be, but it doesn't mean your board can take on powers not granted to it in the bylaws. A special rule of order will not be sufficient for that purpose. (Also, you might want to consult an attorney to ensure that your state law applies to executive sessions of the membership as well as of the board.)

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40 minutes ago, Joshua Katz said:

We've been over this ground before. That may be, but it doesn't mean your board can take on powers not granted to it in the bylaws. A special rule of order will not be sufficient for that purpose. (Also, you might want to consult an attorney to ensure that your state law applies to executive sessions of the membership as well as of the board.)

 

1 minute ago, Joshua Katz said:

Well, one would be disciplinary procedures according to RONR.

So... if the by-laws are silent on the matter of executive sessions of the membership (not of the board) , and there is nothing else to legally hinder that kind of meeting, it is allowable?

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If no law or rule of your organization prevents the membership from meeting in executive session, then the membership may meet in executive session, yes. And, if the organization follows RONR and does not have its own disciplinary procedure, then at certain times it is obligated to do so (or, rather, it's obligated to do so in order to do certain things). 

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1 minute ago, Joshua Katz said:

If no law or rule of your organization prevents the membership from meeting in executive session, then the membership may meet in executive session, yes. And, if the organization follows RONR and does not have its own disciplinary procedure, then at certain times it is obligated to do so (or, rather, it's obligated to do so in order to do certain things). 

Thank you... this will certainly be a new thing to study.

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11 hours ago, .oOllXllOo. said:

If a board is unable to use the trial process as it is desribed in RONR, could they modify it to make it useable, with a special rule of order?

Also: if a board decided to say, design a process to handle grivances among board members, could they do so and not neccesarily

 include management in the process? Like could it be handled 100% by the board, assigned committees in needed, etc... If that was the will of the board?

For starters, what do your bylaws say concerning discipline?

10 hours ago, Joshua Katz said:

We've been over this ground before. That may be, but it doesn't mean your board can take on powers not granted to it in the bylaws. A special rule of order will not be sufficient for that purpose. (Also, you might want to consult an attorney to ensure that your state law applies to executive sessions of the membership as well as of the board.)

It may well be, however, that certain disciplinary powers are already granted to the board by the bylaws.

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On 7/1/2019 at 10:33 PM, .oOllXllOo. said:

If a board is unable to use the trial process as it is desribed in RONR, could they modify it to make it useable, with a special rule of order?

Also: if a board decided to say, design a process to handle grivances among board members, could they do so and not neccesarily

include management in the process? Like could it be handled 100% by the board, assigned committees in needed, etc... If that was the will of the board?

No.

If the rules in RONR apply, such a special rule would have to be adopted by the general membership.

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8 minutes ago, Gary Novosielski said:

No.

If the rules in RONR apply, such a special rule would have to be adopted by the general membership.

I agree, but with a caveat:  Since this is a homeowner's association, there is a possibility that the bylaws (or state law) grant the board the power to adopt rules and procedures for discipline, but that is rather doubtful.  As far as the rules in RONR are concerned, it is the membership which must adopt such a special rule of order.

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44 minutes ago, Richard Brown said:

I agree, but with a caveat:  Since this is a homeowner's association, there is a possibility that the bylaws (or state law) grant the board the power to adopt rules and procedures for discipline, but that is rather doubtful.  As far as the rules in RONR are concerned, it is the membership which must adopt such a special rule of order.

I would also suggest that if the bylaws themselves grant certain disciplinary powers to the board, it would seem to me the board may adopt rules concerning those procedures, to the extent that such rules do not conflict with any rules of the society.

I quite agree that (barring something to the contrary in the bylaws or state law), only the membership may adopt rules concerning disciplinary powers exercised by the membership.

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