defeated main motions - include in minutes?

[Larry R.]

My question is pretty much summed up in the title - should defeated main motions always be included in the meeting minutes or does it depend on what your bylaws might say on the matter, if they say anything? Or, might an assembly adopt a special rule of order about this? What if you have no rule - I can't seem to pinpoint what RONR 11 says on this matter.

[Atul Kapur]

RONR says yes. All main motions except those that are withdrawn. See section on Minutes.

As with almost anything in RONR, you can adopt a Special Rule of Order or Bylaw that supersedes what is in RONR.

[Rob Elsman]

Yes, all main motions, except those that are withdrawn, should be included in the minutes. RONR (11th ed.), p. 469, item 6.

Lurking in the background of your question is, I suspect, a misunderstanding of the significance of the rejection of a main motion. When a main motion is rejected, it means that the assembly has decided not to do what the motion proposes. It does not mean that the assembly has not decided to do what the motion proposes. See the subtle difference? Since the assembly has positively decided not to do what the motion proposes, the minutes should reflect the assembly's decision to reject the main motion.

[Gary Novosielski]

On 8/5/2019 at 11:50 AM, Larry J. Randle said:

My question is pretty much summed up in the title - should defeated main motions always be included in the meeting minutes or does it depend on what your bylaws might say on the matter, if they say anything? Or, might an assembly adopt a special rule of order about this? What if you have no rule - I can't seem to pinpoint what RONR 11 says on this matter.

Defeated motions should definitely be included, if the rules in RONR apply.

RONR requires the inclusion of all main motions made or taken up, except, normally, those withdrawn; the exact wording of the motion as it stood at the time it was adopted or otherwise disposed of; and, if referred, postponed, or otherwise temporarily put aside, notations of any amendments or secondary motions adhering to the question that were pending at the time.  Note that this all ensures that if the motion is to be taken up again in the future whether by the assembly or by a committee, the parliamentary condition of the pending motion is preserved.  And since defeated motions constitute a decision of the assembly, they should be recorded as well.

Note that these rules apply to any motion made, so even motions which die for lack of a second should be included.

Edited August 8, 2019 at 05:21 AM by Gary Novosielski

[Guest Jim]

When I've asked for the minuting of a failed motion, and used http://www.rulesonline.com/rror-10.htm#60 as a source, the response I get back is:

"The Robert’s Rules Association has issued a non-binding opinion that a motion failing for a lack of a secluded SHOULD be recorded. NON-BINDING. Robert’s Rules themselves do not state such a requirement. We operate under Robert’s Rules not under the recommendations of the Association."

Any thoughts?

[Weldon Merritt]

24 minutes ago, Guest Jim said:

Any thoughts?

Yes. Post your question as a new topic, instead of tacking it onto one that is four months old. (And when you repost, correct they typo in the quote.)

[Guest Puzzling]

29 minutes ago, Guest Jim said:

When I've asked for the minuting of a failed motion, and used http://www.rulesonline.com/rror-10.htm#60 as a source, the response I get back is:

"The Robert’s Rules Association has issued a non-binding opinion that a motion failing for a lack of a secluded SHOULD be recorded. NON-BINDING. Robert’s Rules themselves do not state such a requirement. We operate under Robert’s Rules not under the recommendations of the Association."

Any thoughts?

First thought: Get the latest (12th) edition

Second thought. Read 48:3 6)  

So probably things have changed in the last 20 years....