Overriding/re-voting/on a failed motion.

[LostnIL]

All,

I apologize if the topic doesn't clearly describe what I am trying to ask, bare with me, I am new to RONR. 

Recently, we held a board meeting and we only had 3 Trustees (Out of 6) so the Mayor was voting. We needed a minimum of 4 votes for a motion to pass. There was a motion regarding public safety and closing of a road that I voted against. It failed because it didn't get the needed 4 votes. -- What options does the Board have under parliamentary rules to try and revive the failed vote to close a main road for a business event? 

I understand there is a procedure to reconsider, but that typically needs done the same day/meeting. Can they bring the SAME vote back up when more Trustees are in attendance to try and change the outcome of the failed motion? 

 

Edited January 24, 2020 at 12:07 AM by LostnIL

[J. J.]

29 minutes ago, LostnIL said:

All,

I apologize if the topic doesn't clearly describe what I am trying to ask, bare with me, I am new to RONR. 

Recently, we held a board meeting and we only had 3 Trustees (Out of 6) so the Mayor was voting. We needed a minimum of 4 votes for a motion to pass. There was a motion regarding public safety and closing of a road that I voted against. It failed because it didn't get the needed 4 votes. -- What options does the Board have under parliamentary rules to try and revive the failed vote to close a main road for a business event? 

I understand there is a procedure to reconsider, but that typically needs done the same day/meeting. Can they bring the SAME vote back up when more Trustees are in attendance to try and change the outcome of the failed motion? 

 

It each meeting is a different session, then it could be made again, renewed, at the next meeting,

[Joshua Katz]

3 hours ago, LostnIL said:

Recently, we held a board meeting and we only had 3 Trustees (Out of 6) so the Mayor was voting.

Do you have some sort of rules that make sense of this? If the rules in RONR apply, there was not a quorum.

3 hours ago, LostnIL said:

We needed a minimum of 4 votes for a motion to pass.

Why? Again, if the rules in RONR apply, there is usually not a fixed number of votes needed, just a majority for original main motions.

 

3 hours ago, LostnIL said:

What options does the Board have under parliamentary rules to try and revive the failed vote to close a main road for a business event? 

Assuming the rules in RONR apply, it may be moved again at a new session.

[Richard Brown]

14 hours ago, LostnIL said:

Recently, we held a board meeting and we only had 3 Trustees (Out of 6) so the Mayor was voting. We needed a minimum of 4 votes for a motion to pass

I have several questions:

1. By law, how many people are supposed to be on this board?

2. How many members are actually on the board at this time?

3.  By law, what is the mayor’s  role/position on this board? Is he an actual member of the board? Or does he merrily preside over its meetings?

4. by what authority does the mayor have a vote on this board If he is not a member of it?

5. Is there a law or local rule prescribing what the quorum of the board is? If so, what is that number?

6. is there a law or local rule stating that four votes are needed, rather than a simple majority vote of the members present and voting, in order to adopt a motion? 

Edited January 24, 2020 at 02:19 PM by Richard Brown
Typographical corrections

[LostnIL]

1 hour ago, Richard Brown said:

I have several questions:

1. By law, how many people are supposed to be on this board?

2. How many members are actually on the board at this time?

3.  By law, what is the mayor’s  role/position on this board? Is he an actual member of the board? Or does he merrily preside over its meetings?

4. by what authority does the mayor have a vote on this board If he is not a member of it?

5. Is there a law or local rule prescribing what the quorum of the board is? If so, what is that number?

6. is there a law or local rule stating that four votes are needed, rather than a simple majority vote of the members present and voting, in order to adopt a motion? 

Mr. Brown,

1. There are 6 Trustees, a Clerk and a Mayor. This is the legal makeup of the Village Board. The Clerk doesn't vote and the Mayor historically only votes to break ties. 
2. 6 Trustees, Mayor and a Clerk. Although, is the "board" only those who can vote?
3. He presides over meetings and votes if there is a tie. 
4. That is a good question. I am new to government and these rules. He has only ever voted to break a tie until this last meeting?
5. Our Village code states "H. Quorum: A majority of the Trustees shall constitute a quorum to do business, but no ordinance shall be passed except upon a favorable vote of a majority of the elected members, as provided by statute." -- There were only 3 Trustees at the meeting. So, absent the Mayor's vote, only three trustees could have possibly voted. 3 doesn't constitute a majority of Trustees. 
6. I believe the number 4, announced by the Mayor and the Village lawyer, was stated as the only way to reach a majority of the public body. There is nothing in our Village code that says the Mayor can vote in absence of a Trustee. 

 

I am new to the board, so I am having to learn as I go. I assume bylaws would need to be posted and made available. We do not have any bylaws that I am aware of that govern the above topic. It seems the Village admin and Mayor make rules as they go. Like today, we canceled a meeting via email. I was told there was a "consensus" to cancel the next meeting. No public vote was held, I said I wanted to have the meeting and yet it was canceled. 

[LostnIL]

13 hours ago, Joshua Katz said:

Do you have some sort of rules that make sense of this? If the rules in RONR apply, there was not a quorum.

Why? Again, if the rules in RONR apply, there is usually not a fixed number of votes needed, just a majority for original main motions.

 

Assuming the rules in RONR apply, it may be moved again at a new session.

Mr.Katz

Our Village code defines a Quorum below. 

H. Quorum: A majority of the Trustees shall constitute a quorum to do business, but no ordinance shall be passed except upon a favorable vote of a majority of the elected members, as provided by statute.
 

There is no wording in our published code that would allow the mayor to substitute the vote of a Trustee. Does RONR allow that? 
 

[Richard Brown]

4 hours ago, LostnIL said:

There is no wording in our published code that would allow the mayor to substitute the vote of a Trustee. Does RONR allow that? 

No.  Your responses to my questions and those of Mr. Katz still leave me in doubt as to whether the mayor actually has a vote. Under the rules in RONR, the mayor has no vote at all, ever, unless there is some superior rule or statute which gives him that authority.

I think that in your case the answer to whether the mayor has a vote will have to be found in state and local law. He cannot vote just because he wants to or the rest of the board wants him to or because it is custom that he does it. There must be appropriate legal authority for him to vote. That is something we cannot help you with. You need to tell us whether that authority exists. It does not exist pursuant to RONR.

[Josh Martin]

6 hours ago, LostnIL said:

6 Trustees, Mayor and a Clerk. Although, is the "board" only those who can vote?

Only a member who has the right to vote is a member in the sense RONR uses the term.

6 hours ago, LostnIL said:

That is a good question. I am new to government and these rules. He has only ever voted to break a tie until this last meeting?

You should double check the rules in question to see what exactly the rules say about the mayor voting.

6 hours ago, LostnIL said:

Our Village code states "H. Quorum: A majority of the Trustees shall constitute a quorum to do business, but no ordinance shall be passed except upon a favorable vote of a majority of the elected members, as provided by statute." -- There were only 3 Trustees at the meeting. So, absent the Mayor's vote, only three trustees could have possibly voted. 3 doesn't constitute a majority of Trustees. 

It seems to me that a quorum was not present in any event because the rule specifically states that a “majority of the Trustees” shall constitute a quorum and, as I understand the facts, the Mayor is not considered to be a trustee. So no business should have been conducted.

6 hours ago, LostnIL said:

There is no wording in our published code that would allow the mayor to substitute the vote of a Trustee. Does RONR allow that? 

No.

[Joshua Katz]

9 hours ago, LostnIL said:

There is no wording in our published code that would allow the mayor to substitute the vote of a Trustee. Does RONR allow that? 

So far as I can tell, there's a preliminary step first here - is a quorum present? If your quorum is defined as a majority of the trustees, and if there is no provision making the Mayor a trustee, then it would appear to me that you don't have a quorum.

10 hours ago, LostnIL said:

6. I believe the number 4, announced by the Mayor and the Village lawyer, was stated as the only way to reach a majority of the public body. There is nothing in our Village code that says the Mayor can vote in absence of a Trustee. 

 

 

10 hours ago, LostnIL said:

2. 6 Trustees, Mayor and a Clerk. Although, is the "board" only those who can vote?

A board is whatever your rules define it as, but the standard in RONR is that members are those who can vote.

10 hours ago, LostnIL said:

1. There are 6 Trustees, a Clerk and a Mayor. This is the legal makeup of the Village Board. The Clerk doesn't vote and the Mayor historically only votes to break ties. 

I'm not sure that the Mayor can vote. Assuming he can, though, is there a rule requiring him to vote only in the case of a tie? There are two provisions in RONR that are relevant. First, in an ordinary assembly, the chair should only vote by ballot, or when his vote would impact the outcome, which is not the same as in the case of a tie. For instance, voting to create a tie impacts the outcome, but voting no to break a tie does not change the outcome. Second, in a small board (fewer than about a dozen) the chair may vote on everything (if he is a member and has a vote).

 

10 hours ago, LostnIL said:

H. Quorum: A majority of the Trustees shall constitute a quorum to do business, but no ordinance shall be passed except upon a favorable vote of a majority of the elected members, as provided by statute.

Was this a vote on an ordinance? If so, that explains why you needed 4 votes, although I think there is ambiguity as to how to understand "elected members." Fortunately, a majority of 6 is the same as a majority of 7.