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Procedural Error Correction


Guest French Em

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Guest French Em

At a recent meeting, an amendment was made to a main motion. The Chair's ruling to allow the amendment was challenged, as a member felt it was not a true amendment and outside the scope of the original motion. The body then did a vote (by roll call since half were participating electronically) on "Shall the Chair be sustained?". There were 9 in favour and 9 opposed with the Chair voting, so the challenge was overturned and the amendment permitted (though tabled to future meeting because we ran out of time). After the meeting, the clerk discovered that our procedures bylaw states the Chair may not vote. Advice given in the meeting was contrary to that. How do we go back and fix the error which would have resulted in the challenge being sustained and the amendment not being permitted?

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Guest French Em

Our bylaw states: If an appeal be taken from the decision of the Chair, the question "Shall the Chair be sustained?" shall be put forthwith and decided without debate by a simple majority of the Members present (exclusive of the Chair) and in the event of the votes being equal, the question shall pass in the affirmative. The names of the Members of the Board voting for or against the question shall be recorded in the minutes.

And yes, electronic participation is permitted.

Thanks!

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Guest French Em

Our bylaw states: If an appeal be taken from the decision of the Chair, the question "Shall the Chair be sustained?" shall be put forthwith and decided without debate by a simple majority of the Members present (exclusive of the Chair) and in the event of the votes being equal, the question shall pass in the affirmative. The names of the Members of the Board voting for or against the question shall be recorded in the minutes.

And yes, electronic participation is permitted and counts as though the person were in the room so I believe it's irrelevant information - apologies.

The issue is that advice given resulted in the challenge being overruled, when in fact the proper result would have it be sustained. Chair wants to know how to proceed procedurally, given that staff gave the wrong advice that materially impacted the outcome. 

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6 hours ago, Guest French Em said:

The issue is that advice given resulted in the challenge being overruled, when in fact the proper result would have it be sustained

I noticed you have said twice that the challenge was overturned. Actually, the question is stated “Shall the decision of the chair be sustained”?  It is the decision of the chair that is sustained or overturned, not the challenge. It is confusing when you talk about the challenge being overturned. It is also technically incorrect according to RONR.  You will never hear a parliamentarian say the challenge was sustained  or overturned. We always say that the ruling (or decision) of the chair was either sustained or overturned.  Additionally, per both RONR and your bylaws,  it is an appeal from the ruling of the chair, not a challenge to the ruling of the chair.

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On 5/28/2020 at 11:49 PM, Richard Brown said:

You will never hear a parliamentarian say the challenge was sustained  or overturned. We always say that the ruling (or decision) of the chair was either sustained or overturned.

Well, RONR does say that the body of the minutes should show "all points of order and appeals, whether sustained or lost, together with the reasons given by the chair for his or her ruling." (RONR 11th ed., p. 470, No. 10)

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