Motion

[MJK]

If a motion is made and seconded, and is debated, but no vote occurs, what is the fate of the motion and how is this minuted?

MJ

[J. J.]

7 minutes ago, MJK said:

If a motion is made and seconded, and is debated, but no vote occurs, what is the fate of the motion and how is this minuted?

MJ

What happened to it?  That will make a difference.

[Bruce Lages]

It would come up as unfinished business at the next meeting of the same body, provided that meeting occurs within a quarterly time period. If the next meeting can not be held within that time period, the motion would 'fall to the ground', i.e., it would cease to exist and could just be made anew whenever possible. Why wasn't the motion put to a vote?

The minutes should reflect exactly what happened - the motion was made by Mr or Ms ______ , but was not put to a vote.

[MJK]

Motion was to recommend a document for signature pending approval by the Attorney.

In discussion it was clear that the Board had a couple of questions that needed resolution and we could vote after that occurs. There was not further action.

[MJK]

Thank you Bruce. The next meeting will be within 2 weeks. The unapproved minutes need to be amended to indicate that the motion was not put to a vote in the meeting.

[Bruce Lages]

In these circumstances the proper procedure would have to been to postpone the motion to the next meeting, or if those questions that needed resolution might take further review, to refer the motion to a committee charged with researching and providing recommendations to resolve those questions.

[Atul Kapur]

In parliamentary terms, it sounds like one or two things happened: the motion was either Postponed to the next meeting (if the questions will be answered by then) or was Withdrawn (if they won't be answered by then). It sounds like whichever action was taken, it was done by general consent.

How large is your board? If "there are not more than about a dozen members present," then modified rules apply (RONR 11th ed., p. 477-478, including lines 27-28, where the above quote is found).
Under these rules, "When a proposal is perfectly clear to all present, a vote can be taken without a motion’s having been introduced." (p. 478, lines 9-10) and,
since it appears to have been done by unanimous consent, you didn't need to take a formal vote, "Unless agreed to by unanimous consent, however, all proposed actions must be approved by vote under the same rules as in larger meetings" (p. 478, lines 11-13)

So the proposal to Postpone or Withdraw the motion was voted upon without a motion being introduced and adopted by unanimous consent.

Be careful to ensure that the proposal is/was perfectly clear to every member and that there truly is/was no objection. Otherwise, these provisions could be abused to adversely affect the rights of members.

[MJK]

Thank you for the additional feedback Bruce and Atul.

 A formal motion to postpone or withdrawing the motion did not happen. There appeared to be consensus among the Board of 3 people, to not vote to approve the document.

The unapproved minutes indicate the motion and second, but do not indicate that the motion was not put to vote.

[Dan Honemann]

It seems to me that this motion will automatically come up again as unfinished business at your next meeting. Minutes should record what happened. They need not state what didn't happen.

[Josh Martin]

32 minutes ago, Atul Kapur said:

In parliamentary terms, it sounds like one or two things happened: the motion was either Postponed to the next meeting (if the questions will be answered by then) or was Withdrawn (if they won't be answered by then). It sounds like whichever action was taken, it was done by general consent.

From the facts provided, it seems like in parliamentary terms, nothing whatsoever happened. These are the things that should have happened, but it doesn't seem to me that they did.

I concur with Mr. Lages that, based upon the facts provided, the motion should be automatically taken up under Unfinished Business.

 

40 minutes ago, Atul Kapur said:

Under these rules, "When a proposal is perfectly clear to all present, a vote can be taken without a motion’s having been introduced." (p. 478, lines 9-10) and,
since it appears to have been done by unanimous consent, you didn't need to take a formal vote, "Unless agreed to by unanimous consent, however, all proposed actions must be approved by vote under the same rules as in larger meetings" (p. 478, lines 11-13)

Yes, but the key words are "When a proposal is perfectly clear to all present." It does not seem to me, from the facts provided, that what was being proposed was clear to anyone. If the proposal was perfectly clear to all present, then the OP wouldn't need to be asking this question.

We are told that "In discussion it was clear that the Board had a couple of questions that needed resolution and we could vote after that occurs," but this in and of itself does not appear to be a proposal which is perfectly clear to all present, as there are a number of parliamentary solutions which could be used to accomplish this objective.

 

18 minutes ago, Daniel H. Honemann said:

It seems to me that this motion will automatically come up again as unfinished business at your next meeting. Minutes should record what happened. They need not state what didn't happen.

Could there be value in some cases in stating what didn't happen? If the minutes simply state that the motion was made and seconded, and then the minutes move on to the next topic, this would seem to lead to some confusion about what did (or did not) happen with this motion. Perhaps, however, in cases such as this such confusion is appropriate.

[George Mervosh]

6 minutes ago, Josh Martin said:

Could there be value in some cases in stating what didn't happen? If the minutes simply state that the motion was made and seconded, and then the minutes move on to the next topic, this would seem to lead to some confusion about what did (or did not) happen with this motion. Perhaps, however, in cases such as this such confusion is appropriate.

How about simply stating that no vote was taken on the motion, since that's what happened?  

[MJK]

The next meeting will first have the Board approve the minutes. The minutes indicate that the motion was made, seconded and discussion occurred. As there has been some press indicating that the Board did vote on the motion, when in fact they did not, I think there is value in clarifying this in the new minutes.

[Dan Honemann]

10 minutes ago, Josh Martin said:

From the facts provided, it seems like in parliamentary terms, nothing whatsoever happened. These are the things that should have happened, but it doesn't seem to me that they did.

I concur with Mr. Lages that, based upon the facts provided, the motion should be automatically taken up under Unfinished Business.

Yes, but the key words are "When a proposal is perfectly clear to all present." It does not seem to me, from the facts provided, that what was being proposed was clear to anyone. If the proposal was perfectly clear to all present, then the OP wouldn't need to be asking this question.

We are told that "In discussion it was clear that the Board had a couple of questions that needed resolution and we could vote after that occurs," but this in and of itself does not appear to be a proposal which is perfectly clear to all present, as there are a number of parliamentary solutions which could be used to accomplish this objective.

 

Could there be value in some cases in stating what didn't happen? If the minutes simply state that the motion was made and seconded, and then the minutes move on to the next topic, this would seem to lead to some confusion about what did (or did not) happen with this motion. Perhaps, however, in cases such as this such confusion is appropriate.

Yes, I have to admit that in this instance it may be a good idea to record in the minutes that no vote was taken. I'm recalling a situation in which the minutes reflected that a motion was made and debated, and then the meeting was adjourned.  🙂

[MJK]

54 minutes ago, Daniel H. Honemann said:

Yes, I have to admit that in this instance it may be a good idea to record in the minutes that no vote was taken. I'm recalling a situation in which the minutes reflected that a motion was made and debated, and then the meeting was adjourned.  🙂

That is my intention. Thank you