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WHAT MAKES A VALID CHANGE IN A MOTION.(IS A DISCUSSION ENOUGH?)


star1441
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This was posted before, but with too many details,  and the results, no surprise, were tangled.

Apologies.

Here it is again, stripped down and simplified. To guide us in the future.

Assume:

A grantee organization asked for another ,annual grant, $80,000 as they got last year.

A trustee submitted a motion , on time and in writing, saying:

"I move to again fund the grant request, as presented, $ 80,000,
and also the customary 10% contingency of $ 8,000. ..  An $88,000  grant for 2020."

A discussion ensued:

There was a suggestion to cut down to $50,000

another to reject it entirely,

or to give just the requested amount, $80,000 and no more,theoutcome  and so on.

No one moved to amend the motion on the table ($80,000 as last year plus 10%)..

The vote was in favor of granting. The yes carried.

The Executive Secretary entered the outcome in the minutes thus:

"...This was followed by a discussion among the Trustees.

 There were 5 No votes and  6 Yes Votes.

Thus, (the applicant organizaion)  will receive the full grant amount requested."

 

The Treasurer interpreted this as an approval of the Grantee's request, $80,000.
But the Trustee's motion on the table was different,  to give an $88,0000 grant.
While there was " a discussion among the trustees" as the Ex Sec reported, no one moved formally
to amend the Trustee's proposal of giving $88,000.
The question:
Do opinions expressed during a discussion affect or amend the motion on the table?
 
Or can you change the motion only by a proper procedure to amend it?
 
Thank you,
 
Yoram
 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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38 minutes ago, star1441 said:

A trustee submitted a motion , on time and in writing, saying:

 

But what happened at the meeting? What did the chair say when putting the question to a vote?

39 minutes ago, star1441 said:
Do opinions expressed during a discussion affect or amend the motion on the table?
 

No.

 

39 minutes ago, star1441 said:
Or can you change the motion only by a proper procedure to amend it?
 

Yes.

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48 minutes ago, star1441 said:

A grantee organization asked for another ,annual grant, $80,000 as they got last year.

A trustee submitted a motion , on time and in writing, saying:

"I move to again fund the grant request, as presented, $ 80,000,
and also the customary 10% contingency of $ 8,000. ..  An $88,000  grant for 2020."

A discussion ensued:

There was a suggestion to cut down to $50,000

another to reject it entirely,

or to give just the requested amount, $80,000 and no more,theoutcome  and so on.

No one moved to amend the motion on the table ($80,000 as last year plus 10%)..

The vote was in favor of granting. The yes carried.

Based on these facts, it would appear that the assembly adopted a motion to approve a grant for $88,000. (Assuming, of course, that the chair stated and put the question in the same wording as it was made.)

51 minutes ago, star1441 said:
Do opinions expressed during a discussion affect or amend the motion on the table?

No.

51 minutes ago, star1441 said:
Or can you change the motion only by a proper procedure to amend it?

Yes.

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Based on the OP's wording, I would conclude that it is the organization's standard policy to automatically supplement approved grants with a 10% contingency fee. If that is the case, then the treasurer's interpretation that this was an approval of the grantee's request seems to be accurate. The grantee did, in fact, request $80,000. The assumption that the grantee should only get $80,000, without the 10% contingency fee, does not seem logical from the discussion of the motion as presented. If that was what was intended, it would seem to me that an amendment should have been offered to specifically exclude payment of the contingency fee with this grant approval.

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 I don’t think we know enough to say what motion was adopted or in what amount. This version of events is significantly different from the first version we were given wherein most or all of us were of the opinion that no motion was adopted

Among other things, we need to know, but do not know, exactly what the chair said and how the motion was stated or presented to the assembly and what language was used in putting the motion to a vote.

I do agree that this version of the events seems to indicate that the motion to award $88,000 was adopted,  I’m just concerned that this version is different from the version we were presented with previously.  
 

But, based on what we have been told in this version , if anything was adopted, I think it was for $88,000, not 80,000 and the minutes should be corrected to reflect the dollar amount actually awarded. 

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3 hours ago, star1441 said:

This was posted before, but with too many details,  and the results, no surprise, were tangled.

The answers, in this thread, were all consistent. The facts presented here are significantly different than the previous discussion.

3 hours ago, star1441 said:

A trustee submitted a motion , on time and in writing

Despite the fact that the motion was put in writing, what matters is what question the chair put to a vote. RONR is very clear that, "the exact wording the chair uses in putting the question is definitive, and the wording in the minutes must be the same." (12th ed.) 4:34

This is why I said before that any uncertainty in what was decided was a sign of bad chairing. "the chair proceeds to put the question—that is, he puts it to a vote after once more making clear the exact question the assembly is called upon to decide." Ibid 4:34 (emphasis added)

3 hours ago, star1441 said:

Do opinions expressed during a discussion affect or amend the motion on the table?

Agreeing with Mr. Martin and Mr. Katz, No.
To amend the motion that is under consideration, you need to, as you ask

 

3 hours ago, star1441 said:

Or can you change the motion only by a proper procedure to amend it?

Yes.

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