Notice of Amendment

[Guest Angel]

A Notice of Amendment to Bylaws was presented to the membership with a vote to follow 30 days later, per the Bylaws.  Prior to the vote, a motion was made and carried to create a committee to review Bylaws again. Once the committee returns with its suggestions please confirm that a motion should be made to accept the suggestions and then present a new Notice of Amendment to the Bylaws, followed by a vote per the Bylaws, or please share the proper Robert's Rules of Order protocol.  Thank you. 

[Rob Elsman]

I think you have it quite right.  After the committee presents it report, the reporting member should give previous notice in the way prescribed in the bylaws.  At the meeting 30 days later, the reporting member (or any other member, for that matter) can make the main motion to adopt the committee's recommendations.  No second is required for this main motion, since the report provides sufficient evidence that more than one member wants the recommendations considered.  The chair should then state the question on the adoption of the recommendation that logically should come first.  Debate and a vote follows according to the rules.  After disposition of the first question, the chair should state the question on the adoption of the recommendation that should logically come next, and so forth and so forth.

[Hieu H. Huynh]

Also, it may be useful to review "Giving Notice of Amendments" in RONR (12th ed.) 57:14.

[Richard Brown]

1 hour ago, Guest Angel said:

A Notice of Amendment to Bylaws was presented to the membership with a vote to follow 30 days later, per the Bylaws.  Prior to the vote, a motion was made and carried to create a committee to review Bylaws again. Once the committee returns with its suggestions please confirm that a motion should be made to accept the suggestions and then present a new Notice of Amendment to the Bylaws, followed by a vote per the Bylaws, or please share the proper Robert's Rules of Order protocol.  Thank you. 

Perhaps I’m missing something, but I find this post and the sequence of events confusing. It appears to me that someone gave notice of a proposed bylaw amendment with said amendment to be voted on at the next meeting. Then, at some point in time, and we have not been told when or at which meeting, a motion was made to create a bylaws review committee.

I think we need a clarification of exactly what happened and at which meetings in order to understand the status of the proposed bylaw amendment that we were first told about. I cannot tell whether it was referred to the new bylaws committee or if it is still pending.

Guest Angel,  can you clear that up?

[Guest Angel]

1 hour ago, Richard Brown said:

Perhaps I’m missing something, but I find this post and the sequence of events confusing. It appears to me that someone gave notice of a proposed bylaw amendment with said amendment to be voted on at the next meeting. Then, at some point in time, and we have not been told when or at which meeting, a motion was made to create a bylaws review committee.

I think we need a clarification of exactly what happened and at which meetings in order to understand the status of the proposed bylaw amendment that we were first told about. I cannot tell whether it was referred to the new bylaws committee or if it is still pending.

Guest Angel,  can you clear that up?

The Notice of Amendment was sent to the membership was presented to the members in October, to be voted on in November.  The motion and carry for further review via a bylaws committee also happened in October at the same meeting of the Notice of Amendment.

[Richard Brown]

13 minutes ago, Guest Angel said:

The Notice of Amendment was sent to the membership was presented to the members in October, to be voted on in November.  The motion and carry for further review via a bylaws committee also happened in October at the same meeting of the Notice of Amendment.

Was the proposed bylaw amendment which was proposed st the October meeting SPECIFICALLY referred to this new bylaws committee?

[George Mervosh]

35 minutes ago, Richard Brown said:

Was the proposed bylaw amendment which was proposed st the October meeting SPECIFICALLY referred to this new bylaws committee?

Whether it was or wasn't, would it prevent any member from moving for its adoption?  It seems proper notice was given.  Whether the committee reports back on time or not I don't think it can stop the proposed amendment from being considered.  I suppose when the proposed amendment is pending it could be referred back.  I've just never heard of notice of a motion itself being sent over to a committee.

[Guest Angel]

No, a member made a motion to create the bylaws committee and the motion carried.  The member was not happy with the proposed Notice of Amendment presented at the October meeting.

[Richard Brown]

50 minutes ago, Guest Angel said:

No, a member made a motion to create the bylaws committee and the motion carried.  The member was not happy with the proposed Notice of Amendment presented at the October meeting.

 In that case, it seems to me that this particular proposed bylaw amendment has not been referred to the committee and should be taken up at the November meeting under unfinished business and general orders.  However, someone could also move to refer that proposed amendment to the bylaws committee with instructions to report back on it  along with Its report on other amendments it is considering or even to report on this particular amendment separately, perhaps at the next meeting.

This particular bylaw amendment may also be postponed to the next regular meeting  or to a special meeting to take place before the next regular meeting.

Edited October 22, 2020 at 08:21 PM by Richard Brown
Added underlined text in the first paragraph

[Richard Brown]

37 minutes ago, George Mervosh said:

Whether it was or wasn't, would it prevent any member from moving for its adoption?  It seems proper notice was given.  Whether the committee reports back on time or not I don't think it can stop the proposed amendment from being considered.  I suppose when the proposed amendment is pending it could be referred back.  I've just never heard of notice of a motion itself being sent over to a committee.

I agree, but I’m not sure where you get the idea that NOTICE of the proposed bylaw amendment might have been referred to a committee. I think we have all been speaking of whether this particular proposed amendment was referred to the committee at the October meeting.

[George Mervosh]

8 minutes ago, Richard Brown said:

I agree, but I’m not sure where you get the idea that NOTICE of the proposed bylaw amendment might have been referred to a committee. I think we have all been speaking of whether this particular proposed amendment was referred to the committee at the October meeting.

It sounded like that here because I'm not sure what they referred, but I might be mistaken.  Bottom line is I see no reason why the proposed amendment can't be made since proper notice was given.

1 hour ago, Guest Angel said:

The Notice of Amendment was sent to the membership was presented to the members in October, to be voted on in November.  The motion and carry for further review via a bylaws committee also happened in October at the same meeting of the Notice of Amendment.

 

[Richard Brown]

3 minutes ago, George Mervosh said:

Bottom line is I see no reason why the proposed amendment can't be made since proper notice was given.

 

I agree and that is actually the point I was trying to make. I was concerned, though, that the proposed bylaw amendment might have been withdrawn and referred to the bylaws committee or that this organization would treat it as having been referred to the bylaws committee and they would not believe they could take it up prior to the report of the bylaws committee, whenever that might be.  I apparently was not making that point very well.  

[Guest Angel]

Am I correctly understanding that a vote on the proposed amendment can still be taken by the members in November as was scheduled, even if the committee has not yet returned with its suggestions (believe it or not,  scheduled for January)?  Also,  for clarification, the proposed amendment was not referred to the committee. A motion was made and carried at our meeting this week, after the Notice of Amendment had been sent days prior,  to create the committee to review the bylaws again. I should add the motion included tabling the proposed amendment as well.

[Nathan Zook]

I'm very confused here.

The purpose of notice is to ensure not just that the entire society is aware of a proposed action, but also precisely when it will be considered.  This is to ensure that each member has the ability to study the matter in advance as well as to decide whether or not they wish to attend the meeting to decide the matter.  If a proposal is sent to a committee, the result of the committee's work is expected to be different from the original proposal.  Unless the committee is directed to report to the next meeting, how is anyone not on the committee, let alone the entire society to have proper notice?

It has been my understanding that if a committee is proposing amendment to bylaws, that the proposal still requires notice.  What am I missing?

Moreover, what if, at the January meeting, a committee is formed to study an amendment and a motion to Discharge passes at the February meeting.  Is the proposed amendment now in order?

[Guest Zev]

"If the bylaws require only previous notice of an amendment without limitation of the period within which it must be acted upon, and a committee is appointed to revise the bylaws and report at a specified meeting, the appointing action is all the notice required, and the amendments can be immediately acted upon at the time the committee reports. But if it is required that the amendment itself, or "notice of such amendment," be submitted at the previous regular meeting, the revision cannot be taken up until the meeting following the meeting at which the committee submitted its report." RONR, 12th ed., 56:51. (My emphasis.)