Rescinding a motion

[Shelleyb0814]

I watched a meeting last night and a member made a motion to rescind a vote from the previous meeting because she felt that the rules hadn’t been followed. The chair shut her down because she wasn’t a part of the “affirmative” in the previous motion. Is this correct????

[Josh Martin]

22 minutes ago, Shelleyb0814 said:

I watched a meeting last night and a member made a motion to rescind a vote from the previous meeting because she felt that the rules hadn’t been followed. The chair shut her down because she wasn’t a part of the “affirmative” in the previous motion. Is this correct????

No. The motion to Reconsider may only be made by a member who voted on the prevailing side, but any member may make a motion to Rescind.

"In contrast to the case of the motion to Reconsider, there is no time limit on making these motions after the adoption of the measure to which they are applied, and they can be moved by any member, regardless of how he voted on the original question." RONR (12th ed.) 35:3

I would also be curious to know more regarding this claim "that the rules hadn't been followed." Depending on exactly what happened, it might be appropriate for the member to raise a Point of Order instead (which can also be made by any member).

[Shelleyb0814]

I will have to go back and listen to the exact verbiage the member used. But the issue in my town is that documents were not given to all of the voting members in a timely fashion...in fact they were given to some after the fact. 

[Shelleyb0814]

The member making the motion had three points: not all members were given the chance to second the motion. Not all members were given the same documents at the same time and not all members were given the chance to weigh in. 

The chair of the board shut this member down saying she was trying to reconsider the vote. The member then asked for a point of order to be considered Abe the board chair said no.

[Joshua Katz]

1 hour ago, Shelleyb0814 said:

I watched a meeting last night and a member made a motion to rescind a vote from the previous meeting because she felt that the rules hadn’t been followed. The chair shut her down because she wasn’t a part of the “affirmative” in the previous motion. Is this correct????

No, this manages to contain at least 3 errors in one situation. First, the rule cited, imperfectly, applies to reconsider, not rescind. Reconsider was most likely out of order in any event. Second, reconsider requires that a person vote on the prevailing side, not necessarily the affirmative side, except in committee, where it requires only that the mover not have voted on the losing side. Third, this seems to be more in the nature of a point of order than a motion to rescind. However, it's not clear that a point of order would be in order, so if not, rescind is better than nothing. 

[Joshua Katz]

Just now, Shelleyb0814 said:

The member making the motion had three points: not all members were given the chance to second the motion. Not all members were given the same documents at the same time and not all members were given the chance to weigh in. 

I don't know what the first one means, but in any event the absence of a second is immaterial once debate has begun, and certainly once the motion has been adopted. The second one is most likely not a violation of any rules, but I can't say for sure. The third sounds like it could have broken some rules, but probably is not timely. Given that, rescind was probably her best bet.

2 minutes ago, Shelleyb0814 said:

The chair of the board shut this member down saying she was trying to reconsider the vote. The member then asked for a point of order to be considered Abe the board chair said no.

Well, no, she was trying to rescind, which is why she moved to rescind. The chair either doesn't know what he's talking about or is taking sides. Not that it matters, but the right motion here, after the chair ruled the motion out of order, is to appeal the ruling of the chair. The chair probably would have shut that down, too, from the sounds of it, in which case, there are rules in RONR for putting an appeal to the assembly yourself when the chair refuses to do so.

[Guest Rescind]

You’ve hit the nail on the head. The chair is not neutral here. The member was trying to make her case for rescinding and was shut down. Then when she tried respectfully to challenge that other members called her out of order. The chair then said because it wasn’t on the agenda she couldn’t make the motion anyway.

[Joshua Katz]

2 minutes ago, Guest Rescind said:

The chair then said because it wasn’t on the agenda she couldn’t make the motion anyway.

Does this organization have any rules on this subject? If not, the adopted agenda could be amended, or they could suspend the rules to take it up.

[Josh Martin]

3 hours ago, Shelleyb0814 said:

The member making the motion had three points: not all members were given the chance to second the motion. Not all members were given the same documents at the same time and not all members were given the chance to weigh in. 

I'm not entirely certain what "Not all members were given the chance to second the motion" and "Not all members were given the chance to weigh in" refers to. Were members prevented from speaking in debate? If so, by what means? I'm not certain what documents are being referred to, and RONR may not require that such documents be distributed at all.

So I am generally inclined to think that if I were in the chair, I would rule a Point of Order on these grounds not well taken, since it seems that some of what is alleged is not a violation of the rules, and some of what is alleged may be a violation of the rules but is not a continuing breach, and is therefore no longer timely. My understanding of what exactly is alleged here is a little fuzzy, however, so I am not fully confident in this answer.

Nonetheless, any member is free to move to Rescind the motion due to these reasons or simply because the member believes the motion is a bad policy on the merits.

3 hours ago, Shelleyb0814 said:

The chair of the board shut this member down saying she was trying to reconsider the vote.

It appears (as I suspected earlier) that the chair is confusing the motion to Reconsider and the motion to Rescind.

3 hours ago, Shelleyb0814 said:

The member then asked for a point of order to be considered Abe the board chair said no.

If I understand this correctly to mean that the chair refused to even hear the Point of Order, this was highly improper. The member has a right to raise a Point of Order.

If I understand this to mean that the chair ruled the point not well taken, I am inclined to agree based upon the facts provided, although I would note that the chair is required to give the reasoning behind his ruling. The chairman's ruling could have been appealed from, which would place the decision in the hands of the assembly.

3 hours ago, Guest Rescind said:

The chair then said because it wasn’t on the agenda she couldn’t make the motion anyway.

RONR has no rules saying any such thing, but since this seems to be some sort of public body I would not be surprised if the assembly's own rules or applicable law say something on this subject.

[Guest Thank you for feedbaxk]

Thank you all for the great feedback. Although I am a former chair of a board, I NEVER had behavior like this on my board. Everything is virtual, which throws another wrench into things. This particular member of the board has the right to make the motion to rescind a vote but the chair is a bully so this member was taken aback by the absolute shut down she got. She got shaken and then others started shouting. It was chaos.