Can Abstentions Count as the Prevailing Side in Motion to Reconsider?

[David D.]

In my assembly, all resolutions require an absolute majority of members to pass, regardless of whether they are present. In a recent meeting, 17/25 voting members were present, and a resolution failed with 10 votes in favor and none against, all others abstaining. 

Later in the meeting, one of the abstentions moved to reconsider on the grounds that they understand the resolution better and would vote in favor. However, this motion was ruled out of order because the member was not on the prevailing side. Is this judgment correct?

Thank You.

[George Mervosh]

12 minutes ago, David D. said:

In my assembly, all resolutions require an absolute majority of members to pass, regardless of whether they are present. In a recent meeting, 17/25 voting members were present, and a resolution failed with 10 votes in favor and none against, all others abstaining. 

Later in the meeting, one of the abstentions moved to reconsider on the grounds that they understand the resolution better and would vote in favor. However, this motion was ruled out of order because the member was not on the prevailing side. Is this judgment correct?

Thank You.

Yes.   RONR (12th ed.), 37:10

Edited November 11, 2020 at 04:52 PM by George Mervosh

[Shmuel Gerber]

Interestingly, unless this was a roll call or ballot vote, the correct procedure in taking the vote would have been for the chair to call only for the affirmative votes, and immediately determine the result. (See 4:35; cf. 44:9(a).)

If that had been done, any member present at that time who did not vote in favor of the defeated motion would be eligible to move to reconsider.

[David D.]

6 minutes ago, Shmuel Gerber said:

Interestingly, unless this was a roll call or ballot vote, the correct procedure in taking the vote would have been for the chair to call only for the affirmative votes, and immediately determine the result. (See 4:35; cf. 44:9(a).)

If that had been done, any member present at that time who did not vote in favor of the defeated motion would be eligible to move to reconsider.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. My assembly has a history of tracking the results of every vote, but upon reflection I do not see why that should be necessary. Only the affirmative votes matter for the outcome of this kind of vote. 

[Richard Brown]

46 minutes ago, Shmuel Gerber said:

Interestingly, unless this was a roll call or ballot vote, the correct procedure in taking the vote would have been for the chair to call only for the affirmative votes, and immediately determine the result. (See 4:35; cf. 44:9(a).)

If that had been done, any member present at that time who did not vote in favor of the defeated motion would be eligible to move to reconsider.

Mr. Gerber, Can you provide a citation for the portion of your comment that I highlighted? I do not have RONR with me at the moment. It is my understanding that in a situation such as this, where a motion requires the vote of a majority of the entire membership in order to pass, an abstention may have the effect of a no vote but it is actually not a vote at all. How is an abstention, which is not a vote, construed as a vote on the prevailing side entitling  anyone who abstained to Move to reconsider?  I understand that Is the rule in a committee, but I’m not aware of it being the rule in a regular assembly.

[George Mervosh]

2 minutes ago, Richard Brown said:

Mr. Gerber, Can you provide a citation for the portion of your comment that I highlighted? I do not have RONR with me at the moment. It is my understanding that in a situation such as this, where a motion requires the vote of a majority of the entire membership in order to pass, an abstention may have the effect of a no vote but it is actually not a vote at all. How is an abstention, which is not a vote, construed as a vote on the prevailing side entitling  anyone who abstained to Move to reconsider?  I understand that Is the rule in a committee, but I’m not aware of it being the rule in a regular assembly.

In case Shmuel is busy, try the first paragraph on p. 304 (37:10).

[Shmuel Gerber]

4 minutes ago, George Mervosh said:

In case Shmuel is busy, try the first paragraph on p. 304 (37:10).

Yup. I didn't provide the citation, because George had already provided it in his earlier response.

"If the motion to be reconsidered was adopted by unanimous consent, all the members present at the time of the adoption are in the same position as if they had voted on the prevailing side and qualify to move to reconsider. Similarly, if a motion was lost but the negative vote was not taken because it was intrinsically irrelevant (see 44:9(a)), the members present at the time who did not vote in favor qualify to move to reconsider."

[Shmuel Gerber]

14 minutes ago, Richard Brown said:

How is an abstention, which is not a vote, construed as a vote on the prevailing side entitling  anyone who abstained to Move to reconsider?

But we're not talking about abstentions. We're talking about (in my hypothetical scenario) members who didn't vote because they weren't in favor and the negative vote wasn't taken.

Edited November 11, 2020 at 06:16 PM by Shmuel Gerber