Hiring Executive Director

[Guest VeteranCommish]

I am on a 5 member board for county Veterans office. We have an Executive Director that works for us. We are in the process of hiring a new Director. We have two members that cannot decide between which to hire. They flip and flop and want to abstain from voting. Which would result in a tie. Can I as the Chairman override a decision and hire who I feel is the most qualified? 

[Dan Honemann]

5 minutes ago, Guest VeteranCommish said:

I am on a 5 member board for county Veterans office. We have an Executive Director that works for us. We are in the process of hiring a new Director. We have two members that cannot decide between which to hire. They flip and flop and want to abstain from voting. Which would result in a tie. Can I as the Chairman override a decision and hire who I feel is the most qualified? 

 

Nothing in Robert's Rules of Order gives you this right.

How many candidates are there for the office of Executive Director?  How have you been conducting this election?

[J. J.]

No, unless the bylaws (or statute) governing that board grant you that authority.

[Greg Goodwiller, PRP]

If you have a five member board, and two abstain, how are you ending up with a tie vote when there are three voting members?

[J. J.]

1 minute ago, Greg Goodwiller said:

If you have a five member board, and two abstain, how are you ending up with a tie vote when there are three voting members?

The hiring might require a majority of the entire membership.  If this some unit of government, it would not be too unlikely. 

[Guest Abstain]

(Board) members have th right to abstain.

As chair under RONR you do not have an "extra" vote. In fact th chair should only vote if it influences the outcome. 

As I read your post there are 3 members who want to vote .  2 is a majority then.

But maybe your bylaws prescribe a different voting threshold. Then follow that one

[Richard Brown]

I think we need the answer to Greg Goodwiller’s question. There should not be a tie vote If there is a five member board and all members are present and only two members are abstaining.

[Guest Zev]

3 hours ago, Guest Abstain said:

In fact th chair should only vote if it influences the outcome. 

(It is not a fact in all cases. Please reread 4:35.) And Guest VeteranCommish, please answer the other questions posed by our experts so that they may help you more effectively.

[Richard Brown]

4 hours ago, Guest Abstain said:

As chair under RONR you do not have an "extra" vote. In fact th chair should only vote if it influences the outcome. 

As guest Zev said, It is not true that the chair of a small board should vote only if his vote will affect the outcome. That is the regular rule for regular assemblies. In small boards of no more than about a dozen members, the chair participates and votes along with all of the other members and he can vote regardless of whether his vote affects the result.

It is true that the chair does not get an “extra“ Vote. He gets one vote just like everyone else. Perhaps the chair is also abstaining, resulting in the tie vote. He can easily solve that dilemma by casting the tie-breaking vote.

I still do not understand why the five member board, with only two abstentions, cannot reach a majority vote. Is the chair being included as one of the five members of the board? Or does he make a sixth member? Or is he abstaining? 

we need more information in order to properly answer the question.

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2020 at 10:21 PM by Richard Brown
Typographical correction

[Guest VeteranCommish]

Each vote one of the two members abstains which causes a tie between the other 4 of us.

[Richard Brown]

37 minutes ago, Guest VeteranCommish said:

Each vote one of the two members abstains which causes a tie between the other 4 of us.

In your first post you told us that two members abstain (Or at least that’s the way we interpreted your post). Do I understand correctly now that  only one member abstains, depending on which name is being considered ? 

Edited to add: also, as Mr. Honemann asked in the first response, how many candidates are being considered and how is this election/selection being conducted?
 

 

Edited November 27, 2020 at 03:33 PM by Richard Brown
Added last paragraph

[Guest Abstain]

It looks like the whole voting went wrong. (Do check RONR on voting and filling blanks)

The voting should not be on who each member prefers.,the vote should be on the candidates, and the first candidate getting a majority (of the voting members) is elected.

[Richard Brown]

55 minutes ago, Guest Abstain said:

It looks like the whole voting went wrong. (Do check RONR on voting and filling blanks)

 

Possibly, but that's not necessarily true and even if true is probably not the reason for the tied votes and inability to select a new executive director.

55 minutes ago, Guest Abstain said:

The voting should not be on who each member prefers.,the vote should be on the candidates, and the first candidate getting a majority (of the voting members) is elected.

Well, every vote when selecting (or electing) people much the nature of elections and choosing  people for positions.

They might be voting by ballot, by voice, by show of hands, by roll call,  by filling a blank, or by first a motion to hire candidate A and then, when that fails, a motion to hire candidate B which also fails.

Regardless of the method being used, if only four of the five members vote for each candidate and the votes are divided 4 to 4 on every vote, each round ends in either a tie or the failure to adopt the motion.... both of which mean an inability to reach a majority vote on either candidate.

 

Edited November 27, 2020 at 10:30 PM by Richard Brown
Edited next to last paragraph

[Richard Brown]

On 11/26/2020 at 11:30 AM, Guest VeteranCommish said:

I am on a 5 member board for county Veterans office. We have an Executive Director that works for us. We are in the process of hiring a new Director. We have two members that cannot decide between which to hire. They flip and flop and want to abstain from voting. Which would result in a tie.

 

8 hours ago, Guest VeteranCommish said:

Each vote one of the two members abstains which causes a tie between the other 4 of us.

All is not lost and you have some options, particularly if your bylaws do not require a vote by secret ballot when selecting an executive director.

Option 1:  Suspend the rules by a two thirds vote to permit the selection of the new executive director by a coin toss or other method of chance.  That is a legitimate suspension of the rule and can be adopted by a two thirds vote. This method was discussed regarding an election in this thread: https://robertsrules.forumflash.com/topic/18326-suspend-the-rules-election-tiebreaker/

Option 2: The candidates themselves can agree between themselves that they will flip a coin and that the loser will withdraw as a candidate. Using this method, the remaining candidate must still be slected by a majority vote, but it can be in the form of a motion to "hire John Smith as our new executive director".

Note regarding option 1:  I have seen some of our colleagues take the position that since this is not technically an election, a motion to select the new executive director by chance (a coin toss) can even be adopted by a majority vote without suspending the rules.  Their position is that a motion "that our new executive director be selected by a coin toss immediately following the adoption of this motion" could be adopted by the required majority vote and the assembly could then proceed to the coin toss.  A second motion to actually hire (or offer a contract to) the winner of the coin toss might conceivably be necessary after the coin toss.

 

[J. J.]

1 hour ago, Richard Brown said:

 

All is not lost and you have some options, particularly if your bylaws do not require a vote by secret ballot when selecting an executive director.

Option 1:  Suspend the rules by a two thirds vote to permit the selection of the new executive director by a coin toss or other method of chance.  That is a legitimate suspension of the rule and can be adopted by a two thirds vote. This method was discussed regarding an election in this thread: https://robertsrules.forumflash.com/topic/18326-suspend-the-rules-election-tiebreaker/

Option 2: The candidates themselves can agree between themselves that they will flip a coin and that the loser will withdraw as a candidate. Using this method, the remaining candidate must still be slected by a majority vote, but it can be in the form of a motion to "hire John Smith as our new executive director".

Note regarding option 1:  I have seen some of our colleagues take the position that since this is not technically an election, a motion to select the new executive director by chance (a coin toss) can even be adopted by a majority vote without suspending the rules.  Their position is that a motion "that our new executive director be selected by a coin toss immediately following the adoption of this motion" could be adopted by the required majority vote and the assembly could then proceed to the coin toss.  A second motion to actually hire (or offer a contract to) the winner of the coin toss might conceivably be necessary after the coin toss.

 

An actual suspension of the rules is too close to the transference of a vote to an inanimate object at least for me.  I do not agree that the rules could be suspended.  However, a coin could be tossed in a meeting and someone could move "That Mr. [Heads or Tails] be appointed."

I would add that it is in order for the board to adopt a special rule of order "A tie vote in the selection of an executive director shall be resolve by a coin toss, or some random means."  Such a rule could be adopted by a two-thirds vote with previous notice or by a vote of a majority of the entire membership.  In the board's case a majority  of the entire membership is three.  It might require fewer votes than suspending the rules.

Finally, this board sounds like it might be a governmental body.  If so, I would suggest you contact the solicitor.   There may be statute or case law that would limit your options.