Special called meeting specifically to have a vote.

[donaltman3]

I have a couple of questions.     I serve on a board for our local church that uses Roberts Rules to conduct business.   We have normally scheduled meetings for the board itself (monthly) and also for the congregation as a whole (bi-yearly.)   The board recommended and passed a motion to call for a vote on a specific issue during the next congregational meeting.

(Every member in attendance of the congregational meetings has full voting privileges.  Everyone in attendance can raise motions and the meeting is lead by the board chairman.)      

During the next normally scheduled board meeting (before the normal congregational meeting) a motion was passed to cancel the board motion to have the vote at the next congregational meeting. 

The board then approved a motion to call a "specially called congregational meeting" specifically to conduct a vote by the congregation at a later date.  A notice and agenda has been sent.   

I am fairly sure in a called meeting only those things on the agenda can be addressed.  The only thing on the agenda is to conduct the actual vote itself.    During this congregational meeting does someone from the board have to motion for the vote  in that meeting or can it go straight to the vote once the meeting is called to order? 

Since it is a called meeting if someone wants to further postpone the meeting is there a process for it or must this be voted on and revisited through an appeal? 

Also we have two regular board meetings between now and this time.   Is the "new board" or chairman allowed to undo a called meeting by the previous board/ chair that has been settled on already?     

 

I am sorry if this is not proper at all or if it is hard to follow.  We are all volunteers on our church board trying to follows Roberts Rules and do things correctly.  We  usually have very routine and orderly board meetings. 

Although our congregational meetings are open for all members and they can call a motion on anything they would like to address, usually it is only used to approve the incoming board  and a budget and later to approve Elders and Deacons nominated by a nominating committee.   This is the first time (that I am aware) any none routine major concern was being asked of the members to address via a called congregational meeting.

  

Thanks for any help.

-Donald

 

 

 

 

 

    

 

  

   

Edited January 21, 2021 at 07:13 PM by donaltman3
grammar

[Guest Puzzling]

There is a lot to say about your questions.

But first of all do your bylaws allow special meetings? If not only regular (and adjourned) meetings are allowed. (Exception for disciplinary meetings)

Or maybe in your case you could possibly argue that all congressional meetings are special. 

What do your bylaws say?

 

1 hour ago, donaltman3 said:

I am fairly sure in a called meeting only those things on the agenda can be addressed. 

That is correct.

 

1 hour ago, donaltman3 said:

The only thing on the agenda is to conduct the actual vote itself.    During this congregational meeting does someone from the board have to motion for the vote  in that meeting or can it go straight to the vote once the meeting is called to order? 

While this is possible it is strange not to have first introduction the motion and have debate/ amendments about the issue at hand.

why no debate first?

1 hour ago, donaltman3 said:

Since it is a called meeting if someone wants to further postpone the meeting is there a process for it or must this be voted on and revisited through an appeal? 

The meeting can be adjourned.

 

1 hour ago, donaltman3 said:

Also we have two regular board meetings between now and this time.   Is the "new board" or chairman allowed to undo a called meeting by the previous board/ chair that has been settled on already? 

So the special meeting is still 2 months away? Why wait so long? 

This is just a way to create animosity, The people who want it discussed getting angry that they have to wait that long and then even cancelling it, better to have the meeting and get it over. (The boardmember s may argue that they are against the motion)

These are my first opinions more knowledgeable people will respond more.

So keep a look out.

But also what is in your bylaws about congregational meetings ?

 

 

[donaltman3]

By laws say that there are two congregational meetings a year to handle specific tasks and are open for  any member to bring fourth other topics to be heard and possibly voted on during those scheduled meetings.  It also says that specially called meeting are allowed as long as there is sufficient notice and it gives details of that that is. 

 

This is a vote to possibly leave our denomination and to cut ties with our national church   (We are allowed to do this and are 100% locally owned and governed.)  

The full authority of the church belongs to the membership not the board.  The board is a representation of its members used for the day to day running of the church not necessarily the spiritual nature of the church.  The board recognized they did not have authority to address this without the memberships participation but spent considerable amount of time determining if there was a need or desire to bring it before the congregation. We finally agreed our national church was out of line with our local church and the issues have taken quiet a while to fully compile and show.   Special committees were formed to gather facts and present to the board.. later the board took the committees recommendation and decided to present to the congregation.  Also the Elders (spiritual leaders meet and discuss their input for the board, they too also recommended proceeding with presenting to the congregation)    The vote was to be held a week or two before Christmas but people feared we should not be having a potentially divisive vote during the holiday time.     It wasn't canceled or postponed officially in the congregation meeting, it just was not brought up.   Now though a special meeting has been called specifically to settle this issue.  

 

The wait was done because "people" needed time to gather information and because of concerns with voting during Covid.  In reality it was a way to delay proceedings by the minority of people against it in hopes that it could be prevented from happening. Rather than fight it out people allowed for the delay so they weren't seen as unreasonable or uncompassionate.   You are exactly correct the longer we wait the more heated and divisive it becomes.  

 

The reason I am asking if we have to have a motion and debate at the congregational meeting again is because it has been done so much already prior to the actual vote.  We have had open meetings for information sharing and open discussions now for months.  Everyone has had a chance to "debate" in formal and informal settings prior to this.  Including 2 more dates before the vote itself for the whole congregations participation and I am sure something will be mentioned in the next two board meetings as well (which are also open to all members, although only members of the board hold voting privilege.) 

Edited January 21, 2021 at 09:39 PM by donaltman3

[Josh Martin]

3 hours ago, donaltman3 said:

I am fairly sure in a called meeting only those things on the agenda can be addressed. 

Only those things in the call of the meeting can be addressed.

3 hours ago, donaltman3 said:

The only thing on the agenda is to conduct the actual vote itself.    During this congregational meeting does someone from the board have to motion for the vote  in that meeting or can it go straight to the vote once the meeting is called to order? 

The motion will need to be made, and the motion is then subject to debate, amendment, and other subsidiary motions. The call may limit the items of business to be conducted, but it may not limit the manner in which those items shall be considered. The call may not specify that the assembly will skip straight to a vote.

After the motion has been made, a member could move for the Previous Question. This requires a 2/3 vote for adoption and, if adopted, the assembly would then proceed to an immediate vote on the main motion.

3 hours ago, donaltman3 said:

Since it is a called meeting if someone wants to further postpone the meeting is there a process for it or must this be voted on and revisited through an appeal? 

Also we have two regular board meetings between now and this time.   Is the "new board" or chairman allowed to undo a called meeting by the previous board/ chair that has been settled on already?     

There is no procedure in RONR to "uncall" a properly called special meeting or to reschedule such a meeting in advance. When the special meeting arrives, the assembly could adopt a motion to adjourn the meeting to a future time, if it wishes to do so.

28 minutes ago, donaltman3 said:

The reason asm asking about if we have to have a motion and debate at the congregational meeting again is because it has been done so much already prior to the actual vote.  We have had open meetings for information sharing and open discussions now for months.  Everyone has had a chance to "debate" in formal and informal settings prior to this.  Including 2 more dates before the vote itself for the whole congregations participation and I am sure something will be mentioned in the next two board meetings as well (which are also open to all members, although only members of the board hold voting privilege.) 

Be that as it may, the board has no authority to decide that the congregation shall not debate this matter at the meeting. The congregation itself may end debate if it wishes to do so, although this will require a 2/3 vote.

[George Mervosh]

Does the board have the authority to call a special meeting of the congregation?  I didn't see that in the facts presented.

[Richard Brown]

30 minutes ago, Josh Martin said:

There is no procedure in RONR to "uncall" a properly called special meeting or to reschedule such a meeting in advance. When the special meeting arrives, the assembly could adopt a motion to adjourn the meeting to a future time, if it wishes to do so.It

I'm going to disagree with Mr. Martin on that point, assuming that the board has the authority to call special meetings of the congregation.  If the board does have that authority, it could use the motion "Rescind or Amend something previously adopted" to cancel or re-schedule the meeting.

Also, if the meeting is not canceled or re-schedules, once the special meeting is called to order, it may be "adjourned" to continue at another date and time using the motion to "Fix the  time to which to adjourn".  That sets up what RONR calls an "adjourned meeting", which is actually a continuation of the same session.  It can be set for the next day, next week, or any time before another regularly scheduled meeting. 

[Gary Novosielski]

7 hours ago, donaltman3 said:

I am fairly sure in a called meeting only those things on the agenda can be addressed.  The only thing on the agenda is to conduct the actual vote itself.    During this congregational meeting does someone from the board have to motion for the vote  in that meeting or can it go straight to the vote once the meeting is called to order? 

That falls under the category of "Nice Try, but no cigar".  

The call of the meeting can't limit the rights of members to voting only.  There's nothing to vote on unless someone at that meeting actually makes a motion, which must conform to the description of business listed in the call of the meeting.  And once it's moved, it's before the membership like any other main motion.  It can be amended, postponed, referred to a committee, or any other valid disposition, including adopting it or rejecting it.

[Dan Honemann]

We are told that the bylaws provide that special meetings of the congregation are allowed as long as there is sufficient notice, and apparently also provide additional details.

I think it may be helpful to see the exact language in the bylaws relating to the calling of special meetings of the congregation, and perhaps also the exact language of the motion which was adopted by the board to call a special meeting of the congregation "specifically to conduct a vote by the congregation at a later date."

I agree with Mr. Martin when he says that "there is no procedure in RONR to 'uncall' a properly called special meeting or to reschedule such a meeting in advance, but neither is there anything in RONR which specifically deals with such things. Generally speaking, I'd say that, once the call has been sent out, as has happened here, it can't be withdrawn or amended after the time for sending out the call has passed, and maybe not even before then. Additional facts may prove to be helpful.

[Guest Donaltman3]

22 hours ago, George Mervosh said:

Does the board have the authority to call a special meeting of the congregation?  I didn't see that in the facts presented.

It does via the board chair and/or  Elder chair (whom is also a board member)  are both allowed to call meetings of the congregation.   The board also sets the time and date for the two annual regular meetings. 

[donaltman3]

I think I understand this well enough to surmise, once we call the congregational meeting we will need to  have a motion, second discussion/debate and then  can vote.

I want to make sure this discussion/debate period  doesn't get out of hand and take an unreasonable amount of time.  I do not mind everyone having their say,  but how can I keep this from just dragging on as a way to postpone the vote or "wear people out."  I do not know what would be appropriate in this situation.  Keep in mind there might be 75-150 people show up to participate in this matter.   Everyone is well aware this meeting is to  have a vote.  We have encouraged discussion and debate throughout this whole process and have had much participation.  I am not sure what if anything else is left to be debated but I see that it must/should  be offered/allowed at this meeting as well.     

 

 

[donaltman3]

18 hours ago, Gary Novosielski said:

That falls under the category of "Nice Try, but no cigar".  

The call of the meeting can't limit the rights of members to voting only.  There's nothing to vote on unless someone at that meeting actually makes a motion, which must conform to the description of business listed in the call of the meeting.  And once it's moved, it's before the membership like any other main motion.  It can be amended, postponed, referred to a committee, or any other valid disposition, including adopting it or rejecting it.

Thanks,  my thoughts on going to a vote is to just try to keep the peace.   Its been a long, dragged out process already.   I understand what your saying and believe it to be right.  Thanks.

[Josh Martin]

31 minutes ago, donaltman3 said:

I want to make sure this discussion/debate period  doesn't get out of hand and take an unreasonable amount of time.  I do not mind everyone having their say,  but how can I keep this from just dragging on as a way to postpone the vote or "wear people out."  I do not know what would be appropriate in this situation.  Keep in mind there might be 75-150 people show up to participate in this matter.   Everyone is well aware this meeting is to  have a vote.  We have encouraged discussion and debate throughout this whole process and have had much participation.  I am not sure what if anything else is left to be debated but I see that it must/should  be offered/allowed at this meeting as well.     

By default, the limits on debate are that each member may speak twice for up to ten minutes each time. The assembly may adopt a motion to Limit Debate if it wishes. Such a motion requires a 2/3 vote for adoption. The motion to limit debate can be customized in whatever manner the assembly wishes. It can limit the number of times members may speak, the length of speeches, the number of speakers on each side, the total time for debate, or pretty much anything else the assembly can think of. In addition, a motion for the Previous Question may be adopted (also requiring a 2/3 vote), in which event debate would immediately end and the assembly would immediately proceed to a vote.

Edited January 22, 2021 at 08:44 PM by Josh Martin