do we have to vote on motion from floor?

[Art]

Hi. In Roberts Rules do we have to allow members to make a motion from the floor? And if so, do we have to vote on that motion in that meeting or can it be held until the next meeting? We have members that bring up a motion for an important "surprise" issue at a meeting. They bring supporters that will vote in their favor but other members were not aware of the topic so they are uninformed or people that would oppose the motion don't attend the meeting because it wasn't an agenda item. As the president, can I allow discussion but rule that the vote will be held at the next meeting so that people can research and consider it more instead of making a quick decision. Our members say they can bring anything up in a motion and it must be voted at that meeting. Then they can "stack the deck" by only informing some people of the topic in order to have supporters attend. 

Thank you.   

[Weldon Merritt]

One of the basic rights of membership is the right to make motions. So yes, unless your bylaws or some superior rule restrict that right, members (of the body that is meeting) have a right to make motions regardless of whether the motion is an "agenda item." The only exception would be if the motion is one that requires previous notice (typically, e.g., a bylaws amendment).

That does not, however, mean that the motion must be voted on at the same meeting. It must be dealt with in some manner (unless it is legitimately ruled out of order). But that could include actions such as being postponed indefinitely, being referred to a committee with instruction to report at a later meeting, or being postponed to the next meeting, all of which may be accomplished by a majority vote. 

 

[Josh Martin]

1 hour ago, Art said:

In Roberts Rules do we have to allow members to make a motion from the floor?

Yes, unless the organization has adopted some rule to the contrary.

1 hour ago, Art said:

And if so, do we have to vote on that motion in that meeting or can it be held until the next meeting?

The motion could be postponed until the next meeting. The motion to postpone requires a majority vote for adoption.

1 hour ago, Art said:

As the president, can I allow discussion but rule that the vote will be held at the next meeting so that people can research and consider it more instead of making a quick decision.

No, you cannot make that decision on your own. The assembly may postpone the motion if it wishes to do so, by majority vote.

I would additionally note that in the event the motion is postponed, further discussion will be permitted when the motion is pending again at the next meeting. It is not in order to postpone just the vote.

1 hour ago, Art said:

Our members say they can bring anything up in a motion and it must be voted at that meeting.

The members are correct that they can bring up (pretty much) anything in a motion, however, they are incorrect that a final vote must be taken on the motion at that meeting. There are a number of means by which the assembly may delay taking action.

[J. J.]

There is a motion called Objection to the Consideration of a Question that might be applicable (26:01-26:9).  

[Art]

Thank you for the responses. It sounds like there is no way to stop a group from getting together ahead of time and then bringing a surprise motion that they want to pass knowing the opposition won't be in attendance because it's not on the agenda. 

[Josh Martin]

12 minutes ago, Art said:

Thank you for the responses. It sounds like there is no way to stop a group from getting together ahead of time and then bringing a surprise motion that they want to pass knowing the opposition won't be in attendance because it's not on the agenda. 

Okay, it wasn't entirely clear from the original post that the group was expected to be large enough to constitute a majority of the members present (and therefore could defeat motions to postpone).

In this event, there is one last option, known as Reconsider and Enter on the Minutes. This is used in circumstances where it is believed that the prevailing side is not representative of the full organization. If all else fails and the "surprise motion" is adopted, a member could move to Reconsider and Enter on the Minutes. This is similar to the motion to Reconsider in that it suspends action on the motion until the reconsideration can be taken up, but the motion to Reconsider cannot be taken up in this instance until the next regular meeting, or an adjourned meeting (if one is scheduled). This would then give an opportunity to organize other members to attend. This motion is discussed in more detail in RONR (12th ed.) 37:46-52.

In the long run, the organization could adopt its own rules requiring previous notice for certain types of main motions (or even all such motions) if it wishes to do so, although it would likely be prudent to provide a mechanism to suspend this rule in the event that a situation arises where urgent action must be taken. This would be a special rule of order, and this would require a 2/3 vote with previous notice or a vote of a majority of the entire membership for its adoption.

Edited January 29, 2021 at 07:18 PM by Josh Martin

[Art]

In this instance I don't believe the prevailing side was representative of the full organization. It was a staffing issue and a vocal group large enough to sway the vote came unannounced. 

Do the members present need to vote and pass the "Reconsider and Enter on the Minutes"? If so, that would be unlikely to pass also due to the biased group.

I was thinking about proposing we pass a motion that in the future any motion related to staff must be announced as an agenda item two weeks in advance and not dealt with as a surprise floor motion. And if it is not announced in advance, then it can be brought as motion from floor for discussion but not voted on in that same meeting.

If we announce this proposal as a topic in a future meeting, then discuss and pass (without the pressure of a "hot" topic), that could help avoid this in the future.   

[Josh Martin]

19 minutes ago, Art said:

Do the members present need to vote and pass the "Reconsider and Enter on the Minutes"? If so, that would be unlikely to pass also due to the biased group.

No. After all, the motion is specifically designed for situations like the one you describe.

"To illustrate the use of this form of the motion, suppose that at a long meeting of a county historical society, many members have left, unknowingly leaving a quorum composed mainly of a small group determined to commit the society to certain action that a few of those present believe would be opposed by most of the membership. A member in opposition can prevent the vote on such action from becoming final by moving “to reconsider and enter on the minutes the vote on…” To be in a position to do this, such a member—detecting the hopelessness of preventing an affirmative result on the vote—should vote in the affirmative himself. If the motion to Reconsider and Enter on the Minutes is seconded, all action required by the vote proposed to be reconsidered is suspended, and there is time to notify absent members of the proposed action." RONR (12th ed.) 37:49

So just making it and seconding it is enough. The vote on the motion to reconsider will not be taken until the next meeting. I would also note that the motion to Reconsider must be made by a member who voted on the prevailing side, so someone would need to intentionally vote in favor of the motion (notwithstanding their opposition) in order to be able to make this motion.

Failing that, the other option is to provide notice of the motion to Rescind. This isn't quite as good as it doesn't suspend the effect of the motion like Reconsider does, but it will still lower the threshold for adoption of the motion to rescind.

"If no member of the temporary minority voted on the prevailing side and it is too late for anyone to change his vote (see 45:9), notice can be given that a motion to rescind the assembly’s action will be made at the next meeting. At this next meeting, provided that such notice has been given, the motion to Rescind can then be adopted by a majority vote." RONR (12th ed.) 37:50

19 minutes ago, Art said:

I was thinking about proposing we pass a motion that in the future any motion related to staff must be announced as an agenda item two weeks in advance and not dealt with as a surprise floor motion. And if it is not announced in advance, then it can be brought as motion from floor for discussion but not voted on in that same meeting.

The organization may adopt a rule of this nature if it wishes to do so. As previously noted, this is a special rule of order. This would require a 2/3 vote with previous notice or a vote or a majority of the entire membership for adoption.

Edited January 29, 2021 at 08:15 PM by Josh Martin

[Art]

This is very helpful. Thank you for the detail.