REMOVAL OF APPOINTED OFFICERS

[Guest Diane DeVries]

How do you remove an appointed officer?  it is not a disciplinary issue, more a lack of confidence.

The bylaws state:

"The following officers of the Post shall be appointed by the Commander: Adjutant, Finance Officer, Historian, Chaplain, Judge Advocate, Service Officer, and Sergeant-At-Arms.

 All Post officers shall be elected or appointed for a term of one year at a regular meeting in May and shall be impressively installed, preferably by a ritual team, in accordance with the prevailing National Manual of Ceremonies, prior to the first day of September of that year".

 

[Shmuel Gerber]

10 minutes ago, Guest Diane DeVries said:

How do you remove an appointed officer?  it is not a disciplinary issue, more a lack of confidence.

The bylaws state:

"The following officers of the Post shall be appointed by the Commander: Adjutant, Finance Officer, Historian, Chaplain, Judge Advocate, Service Officer, and Sergeant-At-Arms.

 All Post officers shall be elected or appointed for a term of one year at a regular meeting in May and shall be impressively installed, preferably by a ritual team, in accordance with the prevailing National Manual of Ceremonies, prior to the first day of September of that year".

 

That is a very interesting question. I'm curious to see how it will be answered.

[Rob Elsman]

Presumably, the Commander, as the appointing authority, has the power to remove and replace his appointees.

[Josh Martin]

43 minutes ago, Guest Diane DeVries said:

How do you remove an appointed officer?  it is not a disciplinary issue, more a lack of confidence.

The bylaws state:

"The following officers of the Post shall be appointed by the Commander: Adjutant, Finance Officer, Historian, Chaplain, Judge Advocate, Service Officer, and Sergeant-At-Arms.

 All Post officers shall be elected or appointed for a term of one year at a regular meeting in May and shall be impressively installed, preferably by a ritual team, in accordance with the prevailing National Manual of Ceremonies, prior to the first day of September of that year".

My first recommendation would be to check your bylaws to see if they say how these officers are removed. If so, you have your answer. If not, it might be wise to amend the bylaws to provide an answer.

In the interim, RONR says quite clearly that for elected officers, a person who is elected to a fixed term can be removed only through formal disciplinary procedures.

"Except as the bylaws may provide otherwise, any regularly elected officer of a permanent society can be removed from office by the society’s assembly as follows:

...

If, however, the bylaws provide that officers shall serve only a fixed term, such as “for two years” (which is not a recommended wording; see 56:28), or if they provide that officers shall serve “for __ years and until their successors are elected,” an officer can be removed from office only for cause—that is, neglect of duty in office or misconduct—in accordance with the procedures described in 63; that is, an investigating committee must be appointed, charges must be preferred, and a formal trial must be held." RONR (12th ed.) 62:16

RONR has no answer to the question of how to remove an appointed officer, presumably because this is believed to be a less common arrangement.

RONR does refer to appointed committee members, however, so perhaps the rules on that subject may be of assistance.

"Unless the bylaws or other governing rules provide otherwise (see 50:14, 62:16), the appointing authority has the power to remove or replace members of the committee: If a single person, such as the president, has the power of appointment, he has the power to remove or replace a member so appointed; but if the assembly has the power of selection, removal or replacement can take place only under rules applicable to the motions to Rescind or Amend Something Previously Adopted (see 50:14). Committee members are presumed to serve until their successors are appointed." RONR (12th ed.) 13:23

"Unless the bylaws or other governing rules expressly provide that committee members shall serve “… and until their successors are chosen” or for a fixed period, as “… for a term of two years” (in which case the procedure for their removal or replacement is the same as that for officers described in the second bulleted item in 62:16), committee members (including the chairman) may be removed or replaced as follows: If appointment was as provided in paragraphs (a), (b), (c), or (e) above, the removal or replacement of a committee member requires the same vote as for any other motion to Rescind or Amend Something Previously Adopted. If appointment was by the president acting alone under paragraph (d), he may remove or replace committee members by his own act (see 13:23)." RONR (12th ed.) 50:14

On the one hand, these rules suggest that if a single person, such as the President (or Commander) has the sole power of appointment, that person also has the sole power of removal. On the other hand, the rule of 50:14 states that if the bylaws provide that the members serve for a fixed period, then removal must follow the formal removal procedures, just as would be the case for removing an officer with a fixed term. The way this rule is written, a literal reading would seem to suggest that this sentence applies regardless of whether the committee members in question are elected by an assembly or appointed by an individual.

This would suggest, however, that the society would have a role in the removal of such committee members even though it has no role in their appointment, which seems rather unusual. So it may be that the sentence in question was intended to apply only to committee members appointed (or at least confirmed) by an assembly, rather than those appointed by an individual acting alone.

So I would first say that this will ultimately be a question of bylaws interpretation that the society will have to answer for itself, since RONR provides no clear answer to the question. For what it is worth, however, my own tentative view (assuming that there is nothing else in the bylaws on this matter) is that the Commander may remove an appointed officer simply by choosing to do so.

Edited February 26, 2021 at 02:48 AM by Josh Martin

[Richard Brown]

1 hour ago, Shmuel Gerber said:

That is a very interesting question. I'm curious to see how it will be answered.

It is indeed an interesting question! 

30 minutes ago, Josh Martin said:

For what it is worth, however, my own tentative view (assuming that there is nothing else in the bylaws on this matter) is that the Commander may remove an appointed officer simply by choosing to do so.

I am inclined to that view as well since these officers are appointed by the commander.

Edited to add: I am bothered, however, by the provision in RONR that committee chairs and members chosen to serve for a fixed term may only be removed through the disciplinary process.
 

Edited February 26, 2021 at 03:20 AM by Richard Brown
Added last paragraph

[Guest Diane]

For the above scenario, what if the members of an organization want to remove an appointed officer, appointed by the Commander?  

 

[Richard Brown]

3 minutes ago, Guest Diane said:

For the above scenario, what if the members of an organization want to remove an appointed officer, appointed by the Commander?  

 

Isn’t that what all of the discussion above is about?

Edited to add: perhaps you are hoping for a more definitive answer then has been provided. I’m not sure if that is possible, as it is an unusual situation and it’s not directly addressed in RONR.  I think It is ultimately a question of bylaws interpretation, something only your own organization can do. Stay tuned, however, as additional suggestions might be forthcoming.

Edited February 26, 2021 at 04:19 PM by Richard Brown
Added last paragraph

[Rob Elsman]

Here are two alternatives:

1.  At the next election for Commander, the electing authority (presumably the general membership assembly) can elect a different person as Commander, who is willing to remove and replace the appointee with someone else; or,

2.  If conferring the power to appoint has proven to have been an unwise decision, the general membership assembly can amend the bylaw that gives the Commander the power to appoint, so that these offices become elected positions.

[Josh Martin]

2 hours ago, Guest Diane said:

For the above scenario, what if the members of an organization want to remove an appointed officer, appointed by the Commander?  

They could remove the Commander and replace the Commander with someone who is willing to remove this person or they could amend the bylaws.

I am doubtful that it will be in order to remove the Commander prior to the expiration of the Commander's term, however, based upon the wording in the bylaws which provides for a fixed term. RONR is quite clear that elected officers who serve a fixed term (with no "or until their successors are elected" clause) may be removed only for cause - that is, misconduct or neglect of duty in office, and there does not seem to be any allegation that the appointed officer (let alone the Commander) is guilty of such behavior.

Alternately, it could be that the appointed officer could be removed by the society through formal disciplinary procedures, depending on how one interprets RONR (12th ed.) 50:14, but we are explicitly told that "it is not a disciplinary issue, more a lack of confidence."

So amending the bylaws is likely the best bet. This is probably advisable in any event, for the sake of clarity.

So I think the question the society should answer is how they want removal to work for these positions, and then amend the bylaws to say that.

I would note that if the society wishes to go down the road of permitting the society to remove appointed officers, it would likely also be advisable to either turn these positions into elected positions, or at least require the society's approval for the appointments.

Edited February 26, 2021 at 06:57 PM by Josh Martin

[Guest Diane]

Thanks to all for your input.