Ian Posted March 22, 2021 at 04:46 PM Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 at 04:46 PM Our Condo Board Treasurer resigned. Can the President or Vice President perform the duties of the Treasurer? I thought the only taboo was 1 person holding the offices of both President and Vice President. Is there a citation in Roberts that supports Officers holding more than one office? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted March 22, 2021 at 04:58 PM Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 at 04:58 PM (edited) 12 minutes ago, Ian said: Our Condo Board Treasurer resigned. Can the President or Vice President perform the duties of the Treasurer? I thought the only taboo was 1 person holding the offices of both President and Vice President. Is there a citation in Roberts that supports Officers holding more than one office? "When voting for multiple offices by a single ballot, the members are not able to take the result for one office into account when voting for another office. For this reason, a candidate is never deemed elected to more than one office by a single ballot unless the motion or rules governing the election specifically provide for such simultaneous election. When there is no such provision, a candidate who receives a majority for more than one office on a single ballot must, if present, choose which one of the offices he will accept; if he is absent, the assembly decides by a ballot vote the office to be assigned to him. This question, which is debatable, requires a majority vote for adoption. The assembly then ballots again to fill the other office(s). (The assembly is free, however, to elect the same person to another office on a subsequent ballot, unless the bylaws prohibit a person from holding both offices simultaneously.)" RONR (12th ed.) 46:31 There also is no explicit rule which prevents a person from even holding the offices of both President and Vice President, although I concur that this would be a bad idea. Edited March 22, 2021 at 04:59 PM by Josh Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted March 22, 2021 at 05:35 PM Report Share Posted March 22, 2021 at 05:35 PM 43 minutes ago, Ian said: Our Condo Board Treasurer resigned. Can the President or Vice President perform the duties of the Treasurer? I thought the only taboo was 1 person holding the offices of both President and Vice President. Is there a citation in Roberts that supports Officers holding more than one office? Agreeing with Mr. Martin, there is no rule in RONR which prohibits any two (or more) offices from being held by the same person. However, you asked if either the president or vice president can "perform the duties of the treasurer". This makes me wonder if you are wanting to elect (or appoint) the president or vice president to fill the vacancy created by the treasurer's resignation or just have one of those people perform the treasurer's duties without officially holding the position of treasurer. It might be helpful if you would clarify what the intent is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted March 23, 2021 at 02:02 PM Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 at 02:02 PM Our Condo Association elects a Board of 5 Officers. The 5 Officers have an internal election to determine who will be President, Vice President, Secretary, Treasurer and Member at Large. A few months after this election, the Officer who performs the Treasurer decides he no longer wants to be the Treasurer. The Board decides to appoint a Non-Officer volunteer as an Assistant Treasurer. I don't see the logic of having an Assistant to a non-existent Treasurer? It makes sense to me that one of the Board Members assume the title of Treasurer as a point of contact with the Board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted March 23, 2021 at 02:52 PM Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 at 02:52 PM 48 minutes ago, Ian said: Our Condo Association elects a Board of 5 Officers. The 5 Officers have an internal election to determine who will be President, Vice President, Secretary, Treasurer and Member at Large. A few months after this election, the Officer who performs the Treasurer decides he no longer wants to be the Treasurer. The Board decides to appoint a Non-Officer volunteer as an Assistant Treasurer. I don't see the logic of having an Assistant to a non-existent Treasurer? It makes sense to me that one of the Board Members assume the title of Treasurer as a point of contact with the Board. Either that, or you could make this "Assistant Treasurer" the actual Treasurer, unless your rules provide otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted March 23, 2021 at 03:50 PM Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 at 03:50 PM 1 hour ago, Ian said: A few months after this election, the Officer who performs the Treasurer decides he no longer wants to be the Treasurer. The Board decides to appoint a Non-Officer volunteer as an Assistant Treasurer. If your bylaws provide for a treasurer, but not for an assistant treasurer, then you might keep in mind that if the board appoints someone as assistant treasurer to perform the duties of the treasurer, that person will not actually be an officer because the only officers are those which are specified in the bylaws. Unless this person is independently elected to a position on the Board of Directors, he will also not have a vote. Calling this person an assistant treasurer when there is no treasurer and no provision for an assistant treasurer in the bylaws is something I do not understand. is the treasurer who is wanting to step down also stepping down from his position on the board or does he want to simply step down as treasurer but maintain his seat on the board? It seems the only way to do that is for the person who is currently the board member at large to be the one to become treasurer and the current treasurer would then become the member at large. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted March 23, 2021 at 03:53 PM Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 at 03:53 PM @Ian, I believe we have reached the point where we need to know exactly what your bylaws say about how the members of the board are selected, who the officers shall be, and how the officers are selected. Also, how are vacancies filled? Please quote those provisions verbatim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted March 23, 2021 at 05:14 PM Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 at 05:14 PM Thank you Mr. Brown for taking the time to help me. Here is the exact text which is causing the confusion. "Article VII, Officers. Section 7.01. Designation. The principal officers of the Association shall be a President, a Vice President, both of whom shall be members of the Board, a Secretary and a Treasurer. They may also appoint such other Assistant Treasurers and Assistant Secretaries as in its judgment maybe necessary. Any two offices, except that of President and Vice President, may be held by one person." The Association elects 5 Board Members. The 5 decide who will be Pres., VP, Secretary and Treasurer. Recently, one of the Board Members resigned as Treasurer and remained on the Board as an At Large Member. The Board chose a Resident, who is not an elected Board Member, to be the Assistant Treasurer. I argue that this person is actually the Assistant to the Treasurer, therefore, the Board needs a Treasurer. I suggested that the Pres., VP or Secretary ALSO be the official Treasurer. The Board cited the underlined sentence above, to claim they cannot hold two positions. However, I believe they misinterpreted the sentence. The sentence was intended to avoid one Board Member from being BOTH President and Vice President at the same time. What is your reading of the underlined sentence? The Board lacks an experienced Parliamentarian and your advice will be very helpful. Ian Lifchus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted March 23, 2021 at 05:29 PM Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 at 05:29 PM 13 minutes ago, Ian said: The Board cited the underlined sentence above, to claim they cannot hold two positions. However, I believe they misinterpreted the sentence. The sentence was intended to avoid one Board Member from being BOTH President and Vice President at the same time. What is your reading of the underlined sentence? The same as yours. The sentence seems to clearly say that the offices of president and vice president shall not be combined but that any other two offices may be combined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Katz Posted March 23, 2021 at 06:07 PM Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 at 06:07 PM 53 minutes ago, Ian said: I argue that this person is actually the Assistant to the Treasurer, therefore, the Board needs a Treasurer. I suggested that the Pres., VP or Secretary ALSO be the official Treasurer. The Board cited the underlined sentence above, to claim they cannot hold two positions. However, I believe they misinterpreted the sentence. The sentence was intended to avoid one Board Member from being BOTH President and Vice President at the same time. What is your reading of the underlined sentence? I'm curious how they get that out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted March 23, 2021 at 06:19 PM Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 at 06:19 PM (edited) 1 hour ago, Ian said: Thank you Mr. Brown for taking the time to help me. Here is the exact text which is causing the confusion. "Article VII, Officers. Section 7.01. Designation. The principal officers of the Association shall be a President, a Vice President, both of whom shall be members of the Board, a Secretary and a Treasurer. They may also appoint such other Assistant Treasurers and Assistant Secretaries as in its judgment maybe necessary. Any two offices, except that of President and Vice President, may be held by one person." The Association elects 5 Board Members. The 5 decide who will be Pres., VP, Secretary and Treasurer. Recently, one of the Board Members resigned as Treasurer and remained on the Board as an At Large Member. The Board chose a Resident, who is not an elected Board Member, to be the Assistant Treasurer. I argue that this person is actually the Assistant to the Treasurer, therefore, the Board needs a Treasurer. I suggested that the Pres., VP or Secretary ALSO be the official Treasurer. The Board cited the underlined sentence above, to claim they cannot hold two positions. However, I believe they misinterpreted the sentence. The sentence was intended to avoid one Board Member from being BOTH President and Vice President at the same time. What is your reading of the underlined sentence? The Board lacks an experienced Parliamentarian and your advice will be very helpful. I concur that the rule in question does not prevent the President, Vice President, or Secretary from also serving as Treasurer. I would note that the rule in question also states "The principal officers of the Association shall be a President, a Vice President, both of whom shall be members of the Board, a Secretary and a Treasurer." This wording would seem to suggest that the President and the Vice President must be members of the board, but that the Secretary and Treasurer do not need to be members of the board. I take it from your posts that customarily these persons have been members of the board, but your rules do not appear to strictly require this. So it would seem it would be in order to either a) appoint the President, VP, and Secretary to also serve as Treasurer, as you suggest OR b) to appoint this non-board member as Treasurer. I agree, however, that appointing an "Assistant Treasurer" but leaving the office of Treasurer vacant makes no sense. Edited March 23, 2021 at 06:20 PM by Josh Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted March 24, 2021 at 07:02 PM Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 at 07:02 PM Thank you to the gentlemen who responded to my query. Very helpful advice that I am sharing with our Condo Board. Thanks especially for your quick responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted March 24, 2021 at 07:25 PM Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 at 07:25 PM On 3/23/2021 at 1:19 PM, Josh Martin said: I agree, however, that appointing an "Assistant Treasurer" but leaving the office of Treasurer vacant makes no sense. I agree. But, not only would leaving the office of treasurer make no sense, I think doing so would violate the bylaw provision which calls for there to be a treasurer and it would be a dereliction of duty for the board to fail to appoint a treasurer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Help!!!!! B Posted June 3, 2023 at 12:25 AM Report Share Posted June 3, 2023 at 12:25 AM I live in a community that is nonprofit and we have recently had a person who holds both the secretary and treasurer position refuse to pay back taxes after the community members voted to pay the taxes in the general meeting. Also 3 of the board members resigned upon being bullied and continued meeting resistance by the same person. Now we don’t have an active president but the old one that basically is told what to do by this lady. She has trespassed people in the community because they don’t agree with her without board approval. Help!!! Any suggestions welcome . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Novosielski Posted June 3, 2023 at 12:36 AM Report Share Posted June 3, 2023 at 12:36 AM (edited) Please ask new questions by starting a new Topic rather than tail-ending on a two-year-old unrelated thread. But realize that very little of that question has anything to do with parliamentary procedure. Edited June 3, 2023 at 12:37 AM by Gary Novosielski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Brown Posted June 3, 2023 at 01:32 AM Report Share Posted June 3, 2023 at 01:32 AM I agree with Mr. Novosielski. It is best to ask your questions by starting a new topic. I also agree that we might be of only limited help since your problems seem to be more internal disfunction than parliamentary in nature, but we can give it a shot. I will say in this thread that per the topic of the thread, there is no prohibition in RONR (Robert’s Rules) as to one officer holding more than one elected position. Any such prohibition would have to be in your own rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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