J. J. Posted May 2, 2022 at 12:08 PM Report Share Posted May 2, 2022 at 12:08 PM This might be question of form more than substance. The Asnem Society meets monthly and has adopted RONR. At their April meeting a motion to buy a plot of land was made a general order for the May meeting. At the May meeting, a majority wish to take up this general order as soon as possible, but they do not have a two-thirds vote. When the chair announces the heading "Reading and Approval of Minutes," a member seeks recognition and moves "to dispense with the reading of the minutes." That motion is adopted. The sole purpose is to get to that general order. The next item of business are the Reports of Officers, Boards and Standing Committees, with the first report being the report of the President, May a member: 1. Move "to lay the president's report on the table?" 2. Move "to dispense with the report of the president?" If the answer to either is yes, may this be done for each individual report for the purpose of getting to the general order quickly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Martin Posted May 2, 2022 at 12:40 PM Report Share Posted May 2, 2022 at 12:40 PM (edited) On 5/2/2022 at 7:08 AM, J. J. said: This might be question of form more than substance. The Asnem Society meets monthly and has adopted RONR. At their April meeting a motion to buy a plot of land was made a general order for the May meeting. At the May meeting, a majority wish to take up this general order as soon as possible, but they do not have a two-thirds vote. When the chair announces the heading "Reading and Approval of Minutes," a member seeks recognition and moves "to dispense with the reading of the minutes." That motion is adopted. The sole purpose is to get to that general order. The next item of business are the Reports of Officers, Boards and Standing Committees, with the first report being the report of the President, May a member: 1. Move "to lay the president's report on the table?" 2. Move "to dispense with the report of the president?" If the answer to either is yes, may this be done for each individual report for the purpose of getting to the general order quickly? I think that a report may be laid on the table. In my view, "dispense with" is unique to the reading of the minutes and is not applicable to other items of business. So yes, I think each individual report could be laid on the table for the purpose of reaching the general order more quickly. Edited May 2, 2022 at 12:40 PM by Josh Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atul Kapur Posted May 2, 2022 at 04:48 PM Report Share Posted May 2, 2022 at 04:48 PM On 5/2/2022 at 8:08 AM, J. J. said: If the answer to either is yes, may this be done for each individual report for the purpose of getting to the general order quickly? J.J., unless I'm missing something in your question, I read 17:14 as allowing exactly this procedure, using Lay on the Table. The only prohibition I see is in doing this en bloc with multiple reports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted May 2, 2022 at 05:06 PM Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2022 at 05:06 PM On 5/2/2022 at 12:48 PM, Atul Kapur said: J.J., unless I'm missing something in your question, I read 17:14 as allowing exactly this procedure, using Lay on the Table. The only prohibition I see is in doing this en bloc with multiple reports. I have no doubt that there is some method for doing it. My only concern is that a report is not a pending motion, technically. 17:3 #2 does not specifically include things other than main motions. 17:14 is a bit broader, but 41:38 refers to "the question that is actually before the assembly." Is the president's report "the question that is actually before the assembly?" I'm inclined to say yes, but I could see different answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Elsman Posted May 2, 2022 at 05:19 PM Report Share Posted May 2, 2022 at 05:19 PM A president's report presented for information only is neither a motion nor a "question that is actually before the assembly". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Elsman Posted May 2, 2022 at 05:34 PM Report Share Posted May 2, 2022 at 05:34 PM I own sense of it is that your answer is found in RONR (12th ed.) 14:11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted May 2, 2022 at 05:40 PM Report Share Posted May 2, 2022 at 05:40 PM Mr. Martin's response was correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Elsman Posted May 2, 2022 at 05:45 PM Report Share Posted May 2, 2022 at 05:45 PM Would the proper motion be an incidental main motion, if made before the report was presented? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted May 2, 2022 at 06:44 PM Report Share Posted May 2, 2022 at 06:44 PM On 5/2/2022 at 1:45 PM, Rob Elsman said: Would the proper motion be an incidental main motion, if made before the report was presented? There is no incidental main motion corresponding to a motion to Lay on the Table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atul Kapur Posted May 2, 2022 at 09:05 PM Report Share Posted May 2, 2022 at 09:05 PM On 5/2/2022 at 1:06 PM, J. J. said: My only concern is that a report is not a pending motion, technically. 17:3 #2 does not specifically include things other than main motions. On 5/2/2022 at 1:06 PM, J. J. said: Is the president's report "the question that is actually before the assembly?" I'm inclined to say yes, but I could see different answers. 14:11n9 and the last paragraph of 17:3(2) support "Yes" (as does Mr. Honemann). I see nothing to support a negative answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted May 2, 2022 at 09:54 PM Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2022 at 09:54 PM 14:11 fn 9 is what I was looking for. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atul Kapur Posted May 2, 2022 at 11:16 PM Report Share Posted May 2, 2022 at 11:16 PM I'll take credit for tipping the puck into the net, but it was @Rob Elsman's shot, so he gets a point for the assist. [Yes, a hockey analogy. I'm Canadian] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Elsman Posted May 3, 2022 at 04:23 AM Report Share Posted May 3, 2022 at 04:23 AM I'll take my bow, but I think this was a harder question than it should have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted May 4, 2022 at 12:12 AM Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2022 at 12:12 AM On 5/3/2022 at 12:23 AM, Rob Elsman said: I'll take my bow, but I think this was a harder question than it should have been. Thank you. It was one of those cases where you are fairly sure it will work, but the citation was difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Elsman Posted May 4, 2022 at 03:30 PM Report Share Posted May 4, 2022 at 03:30 PM Well, the citation wasn't just difficult for me. Mr. Honemann, supporting Mr. Martins' opinion, seemed to venture that the officer's report could be laid on the table, apparently even if the report were to be given only for information. However, my reading of the book does not support this opinion, and no citation was provided by Mr. Martin or Mr. Honemann. It sounds like a case of "do as I say, not as I write", which I have always been opposed to on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Honemann Posted May 4, 2022 at 03:47 PM Report Share Posted May 4, 2022 at 03:47 PM On 5/4/2022 at 11:30 AM, Rob Elsman said: Well, the citation wasn't just difficult for me. Mr. Honemann, supporting Mr. Martins' opinion, seemed to venture that the officer's report could be laid on the table, apparently even if the report were to be given only for information. However, my reading of the book does not support this opinion, and no citation was provided by Mr. Martin or Mr. Honemann. It sounds like a case of "do as I say, not as I write", which I have always been opposed to on this forum. I would think that 17:14 and 41:38, as well as the footnote in 14:11, should suffice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. J. Posted May 5, 2022 at 10:51 PM Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2022 at 10:51 PM On 5/4/2022 at 11:47 AM, Dan Honemann said: I would think that 17:14 and 41:38, as well as the footnote in 14:11, should suffice. For my specific question 14:11 does, but it is not under the section on Lay on the Table nor under the section on order of business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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