Debate on a Main Motion as Amended

[Kevin Hyder]

Hello, I am on a parliamentary procedure team for the National FFA Organization and we recently won our state contest and will be competing at the national contest in October. I am well-versed in Robert's Rules of Order, as shown by my achievement of 1st place individual chairperson, so please do not be concerned about my level of understanding. Here is my question: Suppose that a main motion is before an assembly and Member A spoke twice on the motion, then another member moves to amend the main motion and it is seconded, then Member A spoke twice again on the amendment, then the amendment was adopted. Assuming no motion to extend the limits of debate was passed, how many times may Member A speak on the main motion as amended. Follow up questions: What if Member A did not debate the amendment? If he didn't debate the main motion before the amendment was moved? The only information I could find in RONR was that after an amendment is adopted, it does not adopt the main motion, and consideration goes back to the main motion as amended and that if a motion is postponed to a certain time or laid on the table and considered again on a different day, debate resets so that each member may speak twice again. Neither answer my question. Theory 1: The main motion as amended is a new question before the group, so each member can debate twice again. Theory 2: Since all amendments must be germane, the main motion as amended would not be radically different than the main motion prior to amendment, so the member has already exhausted their right to debate.

[J. J.]

As Member A spoke twice on the main motion, he may no longer speak on the main motion on that day (43:12).  If he moved to postpone the question indefinitely, he could speak on that.

[Dan Honemann]

On 5/15/2022 at 11:55 PM, Kevin Hyder said:

Hello, I am on a parliamentary procedure team for the National FFA Organization and we recently won our state contest and will be competing at the national contest in October. I am well-versed in Robert's Rules of Order, as shown by my achievement of 1st place individual chairperson, so please do not be concerned about my level of understanding. Here is my question: Suppose that a main motion is before an assembly and Member A spoke twice on the motion, then another member moves to amend the main motion and it is seconded, then Member A spoke twice again on the amendment, then the amendment was adopted. Assuming no motion to extend the limits of debate was passed, how many times may Member A speak on the main motion as amended.

As previously noted, the member may not speak again on the main motion on the same day, regardless of whether or not it has been amended (4:28, 43:12-13).

On 5/15/2022 at 11:55 PM, Kevin Hyder said:

What if Member A did not debate the amendment?

The answer remains the same.

 

On 5/15/2022 at 11:55 PM, Kevin Hyder said:

If he didn't debate the main motion before the amendment was moved?

Then he may speak twice on the main motion.

On 5/15/2022 at 11:55 PM, Kevin Hyder said:

The only information I could find in RONR was that after an amendment is adopted, it does not adopt the main motion, and consideration goes back to the main motion as amended and that if a motion is postponed to a certain time or laid on the table and considered again on a different day, debate resets so that each member may speak twice again. Neither answer my question.

No, I suppose not. Your questions are answered in 4:28 and 43:12-13.

On 5/15/2022 at 11:55 PM, Kevin Hyder said:

Theory 1: The main motion as amended is a new question before the group, so each member can debate twice again. Theory 2: Since all amendments must be germane, the main motion as amended would not be radically different than the main motion prior to amendment, so the member has already exhausted their right to debate.

Theory 1 is flat-out wrong.  Theory 2 comes to the right conclusion, but apparently for the wrong reason. "An amendment cannot introduce an independent question; but an amendment can be hostile to, or even defeat, the spirit of the original motion and still be germane."  12:16

[Atul Kapur]

On 5/15/2022 at 11:55 PM, Kevin Hyder said:

Theory 1: The main motion as amended is a new question before the group, so each member can debate twice again.

Try thinking of it this way: The main motion as amended is not a new question, it is an amended question. Those are two different things.

[Dan Honemann]

Frankly, I think Mr. Hyder should be complimented for calling attention to a question which RONR fails to answer as clearly as it should.  We will try to do better next time.

[Richard Brown]

On 5/16/2022 at 11:40 AM, Dan Honemann said:

Frankly, I think Mr. Hyder should be complimented for calling attention to a question which RONR fails to answer as clearly as it should.  We will try to do better next time.

I agree.  I think there is a common misconception that a main motion, once amended, has become a new question and that the debate limits are reset.  I have heard members make that argument rather passionately. There was a time, long ago, when I think I was briefly of that opinion as well.

On 5/16/2022 at 11:05 AM, Atul Kapur said:

Try thinking of it this way: The main motion as amended is not a new question, it is an amended question. Those are two different things.

I  think that is a very good way of explaining it.  Thank you.